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 > Ev charging in camps expectation of availability, cost

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wapiticountry

Mountain West

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Posted: 02/13/21 09:46am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Reisender wrote:

wapiticountry wrote:

time2roll wrote:

wapiticountry wrote:

Centralized charging stations would be a no go from the consumer point of view. From personal experience I can tell you they are not going to want to park their vehicles away from their sites, even for a relatively short period of time.
Actually it is currently working very well at every other venue.
Do people just go crazy at an RV park?
Apparently so. Having owned parks for going on 20 years, not having parking at the site for personal vehicles is a huge issue. I would never, ever reconfigure or build a site where the occupant had to park anywhere but on the site itself. Maybe it is because they usually have a lot of personal items in that car related to vacation travel. Things like expensive cameras, spotting scopes, expensive fishing gear, climbing equipment etc. Or maybe they just don't feel comfortable having their personal car out of sight. But it would be a big customer service negative in my opinion if the charging had to be done at a location away from their RVs.


Good to know. So adding a pay to play J1772 EVSE on a half dozen sites would probably suffice. Get the 24 foot cord version. My guess is customers towing with an EV truck would pay through the nose for the convenience of “fueling up” right on site. Or just add a second 50 amp plug with a padlock and charge a flat rate for access. Maybe 50 bucks a day to use it. Maybe more.
Like every other park in the country, I do not have the ability to just add a charging station at a site. My electrical distribution system is not set up to just add another 50 amp circuit on the loops. Doing so would actually violate NEC rules by overloading the main circuits. To add them I would have to trench and add another main distribution line. That is a major, major expense above and beyond the cost of any charging station.
Even if I added them to your six sites, how do I go about managing the occupancy? Do I not rent those sites and turn away reservations to keep them open hoping someone needing EV charging eventually shows up? If I take reservations for them from non-EV guests do I then turn away EV guests? Do I move the advanced reservation customers to less desirable sites to accommodate the last minute EV reservation? Or do I just put the EV charging stations in the least desirable sites so that doesn't become an issue? Simple solutions usually aren't very simple.

pianotuna

Regina, SK, Canada

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Posted: 02/13/21 09:48am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Etstorm wrote:

In Norway, they use twice the amount of electricity per capital than the US because of the EV charging. Just where would we get this electricity? In Germany they have had to resort back to fossil fuels because all of the solar is covered in ice and snow. Can EV, possibly. Is it the cure all, not likely.


In Norway, 98 percent of all electricity production come from renewable sources. USA is no where near that number.

In Norway, Electricity makes up between 70 and 80 % of the energy used to heat buildings, depending on various factors including prices.

* This post was edited 02/13/21 01:02pm by pianotuna *


Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, soon to have SiO2 batteries, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.

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Posted: 02/13/21 09:53am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Etstorm wrote:

In Norway, they use twice the amount of electricity per capital than the US because of the EV charging. Just where would we get this electricity? In Germany they have had to resort back to fossil fuels because all of the solar is covered in ice and snow. Can EV, possibly. Is it the cure all, not likely.


Hmmm, I don't know. Norway has abundant electricity and as a result they use it for a lot of heating and manufacturing. More so than other nations. Hi EV adaptation contributes I'm sure but their electricity usage was high before EV's.

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Posted: 02/13/21 09:59am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

wapiticountry wrote:

Reisender wrote:

wapiticountry wrote:

time2roll wrote:

wapiticountry wrote:

Centralized charging stations would be a no go from the consumer point of view. From personal experience I can tell you they are not going to want to park their vehicles away from their sites, even for a relatively short period of time.
Actually it is currently working very well at every other venue.
Do people just go crazy at an RV park?
Apparently so. Having owned parks for going on 20 years, not having parking at the site for personal vehicles is a huge issue. I would never, ever reconfigure or build a site where the occupant had to park anywhere but on the site itself. Maybe it is because they usually have a lot of personal items in that car related to vacation travel. Things like expensive cameras, spotting scopes, expensive fishing gear, climbing equipment etc. Or maybe they just don't feel comfortable having their personal car out of sight. But it would be a big customer service negative in my opinion if the charging had to be done at a location away from their RVs.


Good to know. So adding a pay to play J1772 EVSE on a half dozen sites would probably suffice. Get the 24 foot cord version. My guess is customers towing with an EV truck would pay through the nose for the convenience of “fueling up” right on site. Or just add a second 50 amp plug with a padlock and charge a flat rate for access. Maybe 50 bucks a day to use it. Maybe more.
Like every other park in the country, I do not have the ability to just add a charging station at a site. My electrical distribution system is not set up to just add another 50 amp circuit on the loops. Doing so would actually violate NEC rules by overloading the main circuits. To add them I would have to trench and add another main distribution line. That is a major, major expense above and beyond the cost of any charging station.
Even if I added them to your six sites, how do I go about managing the occupancy? Do I not rent those sites and turn away reservations to keep them open hoping someone needing EV charging eventually shows up? If I take reservations for them from non-EV guests do I then turn away EV guests? Do I move the advanced reservation customers to less desirable sites to accommodate the last minute EV reservation? Or do I just put the EV charging stations in the least desirable sites so that doesn't become an issue? Simple solutions usually aren't very simple.


Of course there will be challenges. We have owned and operated business all our adult life. Modernization is a requirement of staying in business. Those who do will stay in business. Those who don't will fade away. Just how it goes. Its a service based economy. People expect services. No different than a hotel.

At the end of the day no one will force a business owner to adapt.

nickthehunter

Southgate, MI

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Posted: 02/13/21 10:31am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Reisender wrote:

At the end of the day no one will force a business owner to adapt.
Which is why the EV charger will be located somewhere very close to the electrical service entrance infrastructure (which may not be anywhere close to your site). If you want to charge your EV you take there, if not you’ll adapt. The cost of running the amount of power needed to provide EV charging to individual site is astronomical. It is not economically feasible. It’s not like running power from your breaker panel to your garage. But you can go ahead and keep believing the parks are going to come to you or go broke.

Reisender

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Posted: 02/13/21 10:41am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

nickthehunter wrote:

Reisender wrote:

At the end of the day no one will force a business owner to adapt.
Which is why the EV charger will be located somewhere very close to the electrical service entrance infrastructure (which may not be anywhere close to your site). If you want to charge your EV you take there, if not you’ll adapt. The cost of running the amount of power needed to provide EV charging to individual site is astronomical. It is not economically feasible. It’s not like running power from your breaker panel to your garage. But you can go ahead and keep believing the parks are going to come to you or go broke.


I think different parks will adapt different ways, just like hotels, golf courses, restaurants. If the park can only afford to add a few J1772 L2 EVSE's then I am sure that the EVer would appreciate them. I know I would.

Lantley

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Posted: 02/13/21 11:10am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Once again its not a one size fits all answer. Getting additional power to individual sites in general will be most costly than a remote charging station.
However we know this is not always the case.
Parks will invest as demand increases. In most cases parks will decide which location will be most profitable.
Campers will adjust accordingly. a CG with at site charging will be more desirable than a CG with remote charging. (assuming there is a at site charge site available!)
CG's that provide EV charging will be more desirable than a CG with no EV charging allowed. Supply and demand will sort this out!


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nickthehunter

Southgate, MI

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Posted: 02/13/21 11:37am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Reisender wrote:

nickthehunter wrote:

Reisender wrote:

At the end of the day no one will force a business owner to adapt.
Which is why the EV charger will be located somewhere very close to the electrical service entrance infrastructure (which may not be anywhere close to your site). If you want to charge your EV you take there, if not you’ll adapt. The cost of running the amount of power needed to provide EV charging to individual site is astronomical. It is not economically feasible. It’s not like running power from your breaker panel to your garage. But you can go ahead and keep believing the parks are going to come to you or go broke.


I think different parks will adapt different ways, just like hotels, golf courses, restaurants. If the park can only afford to add a few J1772 L2 EVSE's then I am sure that the EVer would appreciate them. I know I would.
So you would “appreciate” one; but how much extra over and above a non EV serviced site would you and your fellow EV’ers be willing to pay? Appreciation rarely pays the bills; however money talks and...

time2roll

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Posted: 02/13/21 12:14pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

wapiticountry wrote:

Like every other park in the country, I do not have the ability to just add a charging station at a site.
I was thinking add some charging at the office, pool, laundry, shower house where you might have an extra spot and some electric. If it is not going to work just skip it. There are no requirements. Just voluntary to possibly attract an EV patron to camp. Right now these are extremely few so no rush. I am sure you have a dozen other things that need attention.


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Reisender

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Posted: 02/13/21 12:56pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

nickthehunter wrote:

Reisender wrote:

nickthehunter wrote:

Reisender wrote:

At the end of the day no one will force a business owner to adapt.
Which is why the EV charger will be located somewhere very close to the electrical service entrance infrastructure (which may not be anywhere close to your site). If you want to charge your EV you take there, if not you’ll adapt. The cost of running the amount of power needed to provide EV charging to individual site is astronomical. It is not economically feasible. It’s not like running power from your breaker panel to your garage. But you can go ahead and keep believing the parks are going to come to you or go broke.


I think different parks will adapt different ways, just like hotels, golf courses, restaurants. If the park can only afford to add a few J1772 L2 EVSE's then I am sure that the EVer would appreciate them. I know I would.
So you would “appreciate” one; but how much extra over and above a non EV serviced site would you and your fellow EV’ers be willing to pay? Appreciation rarely pays the bills; however money talks and...


Well, I can't speak for other EVers. But personally?. Right now, on a road trip, when I go to a Supercharger other non Tesla DC fast charger I pay I pay 3 to 5 times the cost of charging at home just for the fast charge service. I would think I would be happy to pay the same for an over night charge so I would be ready to hit the road the next day with a full tank. There is probably a healthy margin in there as well for the operator. So say a half ton sucks up 150 kw of power at 10 cents per KW. Charge 40 bucks for the service. I would do that. I'm on holidays. Meh. Adjust accordingly for costs in your area. Others may feel differently. To each his own.

However, the flat rate might be less appealing to those who just want to top up. So a time based billing might be better albeit a little more high tech as one would have to use a commercial EVSE costing closer to a couple grand as opposed to a 800 dollar EVSE (or even free from Tesla).

One of the things the wineries around here are doing is getting the free EVSE's from Tesla and installing them in their parking lots. The only expense is the installation. Its definitely an attraction for customers as it seems popular. Its getting less important as vehicle ranges are getting longer, but still, dinner and a wine tasting while the car is charging is kinda cool. We have done it a few times. Everybody wins. Most only have one or two right now but then again, there are still not a ton of EV's on the road. Where we are about 10 percent of the new vehicles sold are EV's, but with EV trucks hitting the road this year and next that will probably jump up soon. COVID has slowed everything down around here a bit. Anyway, my point is, the Tesla free EVSE program might be an easy way to start. And they will provide both a Tesla and non Tesla EVSE if you wish. You would have to get in touch with Tesla for the details but seems to work for some. One would need a couple of 60 amp circuits although they are dip switch settable to work on 50 amp circuits. It would look something like this.

Cheers

[image]

* This post was edited 02/13/21 01:23pm by Reisender *

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