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3 tons

NV.

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Posted: 02/22/21 10:57am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

“ --3 tons, do you have measurements of your solar harvest from before you got LFPs and from afterwards, with same conditions, so we can "see your work" and do a peer review on that? ”

Many Thanks, but I have no interest in traveling down this ‘discredit the opposition’ rabbit-hole (a common tactic) with our Canuck friends, but since you seem to have a keen fascination with the shortcomings of LiFePo4, please take a moment to share with us your ‘actual experiences’ with LiFePo4 - FWIW, I have no interest in discrediting any competing battery technology, and in fact tend to view it as a fools-game, but thats just me....

3 tons

Itinerant1

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Posted: 02/22/21 11:28am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

When I went fulltime rving back in 2016 and the majority of the time I know we would want to boondock as much as possible. I did enough homework that I know that we didn't want to be a slave to the batteries and that 800ah worth of lead would of been ball park for the wants/ buffer for our daily use and be extremely heavy.

LFP wasn't as established with information as it is now but figured we would give it a try and see if the hype was as good as it was claimed to be. Our 500ah lfp battery pack weighing in at 143# for 6.4kWh or 5.12kWh usable. Now add in the rest of the system (solar panels, inverter/ charger, SCC, sub panel and all wiring) brought the total weight to 500# and as we all know weight is everything in a trailer and even more as a fulltimer with no stick and brick to run back to.

I'm curious and this goes to BLF13 question to 3 tons.

Here is a normal day during late spring, summer, early fall of our use of switching the fridge over to electric and other normal everyday items being used.

[image]

[image]

If everything was the same system wise except for the batteries. 500ah lfp & 800 lead would you have the same life from the batteries. Right now I'm at 1,600+ cycles of 35-40% DODs and still using the microwave, coffee pot at 30% SOC (70% DOD) not getting back to full charge for 30 or so days at time during the winter months when solar can finally do it. As of today we have boondocked 1,609 of 1,773.

Would you be able to do the exact same thing with a lead bank as far as shown in the daily recordings and still get back to full daily and get the longevity from them?


12v 500ah (5,120Wh usable), 20 cells_ 4s5p (GBS LFMP battery system). 8 CTI 160 watt panels (1,280 watts)2s4p,Panels mounted flat. Magnum PT100 SCC, Magnum 3012 hybrid inverter, ME-ARC 50. Installed 4/2016 been on 24/7/365, daily 35-45% DOD 1,600+ cycles.

pianotuna

Regina, SK, Canada

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Posted: 02/22/21 12:46pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

As I have said before many times, any battery bank can be designed to work well.

LiFePo4 can be outstanding. Itinerant1, 3 tons and others have proved their worth.

But the video is totally out to lunch.

* This post was edited 02/22/21 01:07pm by pianotuna *


Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, soon to have SiO2 batteries, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.

BFL13

Victoria, BC

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Posted: 02/22/21 12:47pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

My question was not about lifetime cycles, etc, although itinerant1 makes a good point about that for a full-timer. If you only do 50 deep cycles a year, it is not important for $ compared with FLA. LFP with solar full-time has the great benefit of not needing to be fully charged often to prevent sulphation--that is a big deal.

My question is still what is meant by saying you get more "solar harvest" from your same solar set if only you had LFPs instead of FLAs. The solar set can't do any more, but perhaps it means you can restore more AH in the same day with the same solar conditions?

I know about when Bulk ends, etc--we did that with figures I came up with.

I would like somebody else to show his figures and how that would be calculated to show the two "solar harvests" in comparison. Using what exact battery banks in each case, starting from what SOCs at sunrise or whatever the test conditions are. Like that.


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pianotuna

Regina, SK, Canada

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Posted: 02/22/21 01:05pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Itinerant1 wrote:

Would you be able to do the exact same thing with a lead bank as far as shown in the daily recordings and still get back to full daily and get the longevity from them?


Probably not unless you live in a high sunshine area (I do).

The other way to do it may be to have twin banks then live off one bank, while resting and charging the other. (I do).

The other way is to have a battery bank that doesn't sulfate. (I will, next summer, provided travel is allowed).

I'm curious--have you had to run a generator at all?

Itinerant1

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Posted: 02/22/21 02:18pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I run the 2200i generator when the SOC will not be at 65% +/- by 6pm in the winter months. Between furnace, inverter (I don't turn it off), humidifier runs 24/7 and other misc loads, the nighly use will be 35 or so %, so when morning comes I can still make a couple 12c pots of coffee and run the microwave for 5 minutes. Which will put me in the 25% +/- SoC using the high draw items. I'll let solar do what ever it can during the day and decide how long to run the generator if needed to get to the nighttime % needed, which normally theres enough solar to get that point. 1 hour of gen run time equals 100ah or 20% charge to the batteries. 1 to 2 hours is the amount of time it will run if it's needed.

Location and sun/ weather conditions are deciding factors obviously if generator is needed. Here is how it breaks down from previous years.
2017_ 6x for 13 hours total
2018_ 16x for 33 hours total
2019_ 20x for 34 hours total
2020_ 18x for 28.5 hours total
2021_ 3x for 4 hours total

112.5 hours total during this period time.

* This post was edited 02/24/21 12:45pm by Itinerant1 *

3 tons

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Posted: 02/22/21 03:44pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

“Would you be able to do the exact same thing with a lead bank as far as shown in the daily recordings and still get back to full daily and get the longevity from them?”

I could only speculate a guesstimate here, but from the little bit I know about SiO2’s, I believe that since they’re used (as reported) in long term telecom and especially cold weather applications, I’d think they should score quite well in this regard... Though their tech approach and operating characteristics somewhat different, it’s yet another approach worthy of one’s consideration - score one for the consumers...

3 tons

BFL13

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Posted: 02/22/21 04:44pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

One of the video's sales tricks was to say how much more energy the BB LFP had than all those other non-LFP losers, and then not using the AH.

Another blurb I was reading said the LFP had about 150 vs 30 (units?) of "energy density" than FLA. but we use AH not energy.

The video also claimed the FLAs did not have their supposed AHs in them. That will come as a surprise to my Trimetric monitor, which has shown a good correlation between AH count and "resting voltage" for SOC for my various batteries over the years, and I get expected AH for the battery ratings.

I have seen "12.2" at half the rated AHs lots of times. The video guys claimed this was never going to happen. (I think that was what they said--it was all so bogus, hard to tell)

Apparently those guys could use a Trimetric monitor so they would not be so "confused" (to put it politely)! [emoticon]

I think the energy advantage has to do with the high discharge rate of LFPs but not clear on that. For ordinary RV loads it doesn't change how running a 10 amp load for an hour comes to 10AH out of your 100AH batt, whether it is FLA, AGM, or LFP. 10AH is 10AH from 100AH every time.

It reminds me of how the MPPT salesmen like to say the PWM controller wastes energy. They don't want to compare amps to the battery. ( PWM could care less about the energy--it does amps.)

Talking about energy instead of amps to the battery, and AH is what I call "smoke and mirrors".

IMO a good case for LFPs can be made for some scenarios without all the silly stuff.

MEXICOWANDERER

las peñas, michoacan, mexico

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Posted: 02/22/21 04:49pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Lasts four times as long?

Warranty half as long?

Ever see Herb's face when Jennifer detailed what she was going to let her date do to her?

The Show was a masterpiece of BS sales parody

pianotuna

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Posted: 02/22/21 05:06pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

BFL13 wrote:

I think the energy advantage has to do with the high discharge rate of LFPs but not clear on that.

IMO a good case for LFPs can be made for some scenarios without all the silly stuff.


Hi,

I am going guess they chose the "high amp" discharge rate of 80 amps, quite carefully, as a "sweet spot" for the LiFePo4.

Let's see what happens when 2 LiFePo4 have 185 amps drawn from them to power a microwave? Oh...but they didn't bother to test the Li--only the AGM's. (or did I miss that part???) Could that be a bit of an oversight? Or was it deliberate? Being a doubting Thomas I vote for "the man behind the curtain".

https://youtu.be/qdxG4P5zePc WKRP (for Mex)

There is no doubt that Li are coming and yes, an excellent case can be made for them. But I'll never ever have ANY large capacity secondary battery in my living quarters.

* This post was last edited 02/22/21 05:29pm by pianotuna *   View edit history

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