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 > Wonder if truck makers will start making 10001 # 1/2 tons.

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valhalla360

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Posted: 02/23/21 12:01pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

So they are encouraging overloading trucks?


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Reisender

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Posted: 02/23/21 12:36pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Dadoffourgirls wrote:

Reisender wrote:

... Plus electric vehicles are a fraction of the cost to operate...



A fraction like 9 over 10! My registration is more, my insurance is more, fuel cost slightly cheaper, and no oil change at 7500 miles. That is not including the cost to upgrade electrical to have a charger in the garage.


Probably depends where you live.

My registration is the same. Supposed to go up buy 120 bucks in 2023 though. Probably to pay road taxes.
My insurance is the same.
Fuel cost is about a quarter.
Upgrade was 350 bucks to put in a stove plug in the garage. . But for many they just use 120 volts for charging. But yah, it can vary from person to person. And yah, for a pickup with a bigger battery I would want the stove plug.

There are some smokin deals on 2020 and even 2021 bolts right now. Brand new. 25000 and under.

Cheers.

* This post was edited 02/23/21 12:46pm by Reisender *

blt2ski

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Posted: 02/23/21 12:52pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Ummmm.....
If "I'm" reading this correctly, they are saying anything under 10,000 lbs scale wight. That would include my now dead C2500. My 05 crew cab dually. Along with every other vehicle or truck I've owned! As ALL but my Navistar dump truck scaled in at under 10000 lbs.
"IF" talking gross wieght, that's another story. I can out a 10000+ gvw registration on any truck plated vehicle in the state.

Marty


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blt2ski

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Posted: 02/23/21 01:59pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Like a lot of these goals thinking on this a bit. Thor will be a LOT of fine tuning between now and then. Possibly a delay or two. Just as another goal at one time, no boats will be painted with copper based bottom paint. That thought is delayed, due to paint manufactures not being able to come up with a satisfactory non copper based bottom paint for those in salt water.
I suspect many of the states trying to pull off this get rid of ICE vehicles will not totally succeed. Altho a reasonable "BWHAG" ie"Big Wild Hairy Assed Goal". Nothing wrong having a BWHAG be it personal, business, or government oriented.

Marty

ScottG

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Posted: 02/23/21 02:08pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

House bill 1204 has nothing to do with vehicles. It is in regard to plastic packaging. HB 1204 is a *Companion Bill to SB 5256. HB 1204

Senate bill 5256 is in regard to the discussion at hand. It includes "light duty motor vehicles with a scale weight of up to 10,000 pounds". So having a 1/2T with a GVWR of 10,001# wouldn't do you any good. OTOH, there is no definition in the bill of what a Heavy duty vehicle is.

Note that hydrogen vehicles that are propelled SOLELY by an electric motor are viewed the same (in this bill) as all-electric vehicles.

SB 5256 bill has not gone to Committee yet.

SB 5256

*Companion bills are to be identical in Wa. State. They are bills simultaneously brought up in the House and Senate in order to expedite passage to law.

Also of note, Wa. state law absolutely forbids any bill from embracing more than one subject. This has not stopped law makers (or private citizens *cough* Eyman) from trying to do so on many occasions (they never learn). When that happens, The new law is challenged in the Wa. State Supreme Court and they throw out the new Law. It's dead at that point. To get the law passed, the entire process has to be repeated.

* This post was edited 02/23/21 07:07pm by ScottG *

rhagfo

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Posted: 02/23/21 02:35pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Tyler0215 wrote:

Another example of putting the cart before the horse. Are there plans underway to charge all the new EV's?
Last week in Texas proved how vulnarable the power grid is.


X2, and not thinking with the whole brain.
Currently electric "Appears" to be the big savior, but it is the hidden, not thought out consequences that is the issue.
Highways, pay per mile, but how to track?
The Grid, will it be ready.
Solar, fantastic in the southern states, but the further north, the less efficient.
Then what about ice storms? Texas, and parts of Oregon and Washington, were hit with ice storms in the last several weeks.
Then there is the producing and disposal of the batteries to operate.


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Grit dog

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Posted: 02/23/21 02:53pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Reisender wrote:



There are some smokin deals on 2020 and even 2021 bolts right now. Brand new. 25000 and under.

Cheers.


Man, you're EV cokebottle glasses really ARE that thick, aren't they?

First, you must be pretty far removed from how "the other half" lives. Take a step out of your plush white collar Tesla suburbia and figure out how many people can't afford "an only $25000 car." The fact that you think its affordable to the bottom third of wage earning adults, that's right, of the approx 200M wage age adults, about 70 MILLION of them cannot even come close to affording a $25k car, is laughable.
(We'll leave out how many live in apartments or rent rooms and can't just "add a dryer plug" for "$350" to charge their shiny new EV.)

Now on to the car you used as an example.
SO a Chevy Bolt, ugly little cheap base model, no frills, low powered Chevy...stickers for $35k+ and they are being offered at over $10k off, or close to 30% off sticker... but no the EV tax credit.

What does this tell you?
First, they are not popular. If they were, they wouldn't be on fire sale, especially now when it seems that anything with wheels is in short supply and selling at a premium (Rona sales).
Why? Because they're so [email protected] expensive and the ROI isn't there.

IF, I mean IF someone has the finances to buy a NEW car. they can pay $25k for a Bolt and fill it up for "cheap" few bucks, lets say free.
And get a little over 200mi per charge.
Same person can buy a Toyota Corolla for $17-22k depending on options. (Less than 20% off sticker...because people want them)
So $8k less for a car that will hold it's value better (proven TOyota quality and what we know about EVs today) and not require "additional effort" for fueling.
That same $8k savings at $3/gallon and 38mpg (verified, I rented one recently and it was pulling down 35mpg commuting across the desert at 90mph daily) will about exactly buy ALL the gas that little car can consume for the first 100k miles. At some states fuel prices, that's more like 130k miles of free gas before break even.
Add in maintenance. Say $1000 at retail prices for oil changes in that 100k miles. The other maint, tires, brakes, etc is the same and assume the Bolt doesn't need it's oil changed.

So, worst case, a better quality, much more versatile car costs the same or maybe $1000 more over the course of 100k miles.
And a comparison of resale can't even really be done because there isn't any 100k mile 2017 Bolts for sale, or even close to that mileage. (Speaks to the fact that they aren't versatile or there would be some high milers out there advertised) But mile per mile, the Corolla sells for about the same.

So while on paper, you "could" make a case that the "cheapest" EV doesn't cost anymore than a "better quality" Corolla, do the same with a comparable Kia or Hyundai and they'll win the above comparison handily.
And this is a comparison for an average person who isn't figuring out how to lower their cost per mile (buying used, good deals, etc).


I've said it before, I'm not anti EV. Not at all. I'm anti Elon and his business plan. I prefer to think and do for myself, not let someone else think for ma at a price. But until EVs are better cost wise to offset the other limitations, I can't get on the band wagon.


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Grit dog

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Posted: 02/23/21 02:58pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

rhagfo wrote:

Tyler0215 wrote:

Another example of putting the cart before the horse. Are there plans underway to charge all the new EV's?
Last week in Texas proved how vulnarable the power grid is.


X2, and not thinking with the whole brain.
Currently electric "Appears" to be the big savior, but it is the hidden, not thought out consequences that is the issue.
Highways, pay per mile, but how to track?
The Grid, will it be ready.
Solar, fantastic in the southern states, but the further north, the less efficient.
Then what about ice storms? Texas, and parts of Oregon and Washington, were hit with ice storms in the last several weeks.
Then there is the producing and disposal of the batteries to operate.


Don't forget the greenies are going to get the hydro dams tore down, so you can't tout clean energy form a source you're protesting when you're not touting it....

Grit dog

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Posted: 02/23/21 02:59pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Reisender wrote:

Dadoffourgirls wrote:

Reisender wrote:

... Plus electric vehicles are a fraction of the cost to operate...



A fraction like 9 over 10! My registration is more, my insurance is more, fuel cost slightly cheaper, and no oil change at 7500 miles. That is not including the cost to upgrade electrical to have a charger in the garage.


Probably depends where you live.

My registration is the same. Supposed to go up buy 120 bucks in 2023 though. Probably to pay road taxes.
My insurance is the same.
Fuel cost is about a quarter.
Upgrade was 350 bucks to put in a stove plug in the garage. . But for many they just use 120 volts for charging. But yah, it can vary from person to person. And yah, for a pickup with a bigger battery I would want the stove plug.

There are some smokin deals on 2020 and even 2021 bolts right now. Brand new. 25000 and under.

Cheers.


And how much did the Tesla cost you?

KD4UPL

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Posted: 02/23/21 03:19pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I assume these laws are written by young urbanites who never venture far from pavement. It's amazing how someone can think their way of life needs to imposed on everyone else even though they don't understand other people's way of life.
I know plenty of people who drive their trucks to their off grid hunting camp, ride around in the mountains all week, etc. Where exactly are they going to recharge? Logging companies, farmers, ranchers, excavators, etc. all regularly operate motor vehicles, particularly 1500 trucks, in very remote areas with no electrical infrastructure for long periods of time.
This will likely drive 1500 truck buyers to 2500 and larger trucks making them even more expensive for us working stiffs who need them to make a living, not just cruise around town looking cool.

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