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LiFePO4 - SOK or Renogy.

Almot
Explorer III
Explorer III
Not looking for a big bank or high charge/discharge currents. Don't need charging below freezing. In Canada things become difficult/expensive.

Narrowed down to these 2:
1)SOK, 100AH, $CAD 975 +$5 S/H. Takes both series and parallel connections. Metal case, 4 plastic-looking cells inside, impressive looking BMS and wiring. Claims "replaceable BMS or cells" - and it is indeed possible to take apart and service only I have no idea where one could get those cells or BMS. Available at amazon.ca straight from China. 7 years warranty. Support reportedly exists. SOK, 100AH

2) Renogy, 100AH, $CAD 850, free S/H. Plastic case contains metal enclosure inside with many pouch cells, - so not much serviceable. Takes only parallel connections, but I don't need series anyway. This is a sale, Amazon have it at $CAD 1,200. 7 years warranty. Support exists and is spotty. Renogy make their own solar panels but I doubt they make batteries or electronics, must be a relabeled Chinese product: Renogy, 100 AH.

Importing Battleborn from the US at $CAD 1,200 + unknown S/H is out of my range. Assembled from Chinese cells like all others, though they do assembling work in the US. 10 years prorated warranty.

There is also Lifeblue at $CAD 975 + unknown S/H, maybe will look into those too - their BT monitoring is a nice feature. No idea what's inside. Lifeblue, 100AH
107 REPLIES 107

StirCrazy
Nomad III
Nomad III
pianotuna wrote:
Gjac,

Thanks.

If I were younger, I would be planning on Edison Cells which last 30 years. At that point, the electrolyte is changed out--and 30 years more! They are even more expensive than Li.


I have been reading a lot on solid state laitly, still a ways off but looking better.

Steve
2014 F350 6.7 Platinum
2016 Cougar 330RBK
1991 Slumberqueen WS100

Gjac
Explorer III
Explorer III
I used to backpack when I was younger and still have a water filter that will filter dirty water. The only problem when dry camping you have to be near a water source to use it.

pianotuna
Nomad II
Nomad II
Hi Gjac,

How about one of these?

https://www.sail.ca/en/lifestraw-mission-water-purifier-776683-18-219210001?utm_source=google&utm_me...
Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, 556 amp-hours of Telcom jars, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.

Gjac
Explorer III
Explorer III
FWC wrote:
Gjac wrote:
If I understand your post correctly because of a deeper discharge of Li Down to 0 SOC and with 2 6v GC batteries only going down 50% SOC gives only 115 usable AH's. Is that what you are saying?


That, and that if you can go a week on 115Ah, then storage is not your limiting factor. If you had a very small solar system you could easily have indefinite power.
What I really need is a way to regenerate FW, solar would not help me stay any longer unless I could conserve water better or collect it some how. Also where I camp in the NE it is all forest. No sun.

FWC
Explorer
Explorer
pianotuna wrote:
FWC has not allowed 20% which is unusable in the guess for Li. So if you "roll your own" allow for it--or even exceed it. Of course these numbers are limited by what the makers of the individual cells create.

One of the few things I like about battleborn is the batteries are really 120 amp-hours--but are sold as 100 amp-hours. Their battery management system 'shuts down' at 100 amp-hours of discharge.


This is completely untrue. The rated capacity for LiFePO4 (typically 3000 - 4000 cycles) is to 100% DOD, which is what BB, Trojan, ReLion etc all use:


Also check the Trojan Trillium Spec Sheet.

If you need more cycles than this, say 5000, then you might want to stop at 80% DOD. But this is not really relevant to RVs as it would be almost impossible to get even 2000 100% DOD cycles out of your battery before either the RV, you or the battery aged out.

It is also not true that the battleborn BMS 'shuts down' at 100 out of 120Ah. The battleborn BMS shuts down when the voltage hits 10.0V (~0% SOC) just like any other LiFePO4. There is no secret extra 20Ah.

pianotuna
Nomad II
Nomad II
FWC has not allowed 20% which is unusable in the guess for Li. So if you "roll your own" allow for it--or even exceed it. Of course these numbers are limited by what the makers of the individual cells create.

One of the few things I like about battleborn is the batteries are really 120 amp-hours--but are sold as 100 amp-hours. Their battery management system 'shuts down' at 100 amp-hours of discharge.
Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, 556 amp-hours of Telcom jars, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.

FWC
Explorer
Explorer
Gjac wrote:
If I understand your post correctly because of a deeper discharge of Li Down to 0 SOC and with 2 6v GC batteries only going down 50% SOC gives only 115 usable AH's. Is that what you are saying?


That, and that if you can go a week on 115Ah, then storage is not your limiting factor. If you had a very small solar system you could easily have indefinite power.

Gjac
Explorer III
Explorer III
FWC wrote:
Gjac wrote:
FWC wrote:
Gjac wrote:
How much cheaper would it be to build your own? Roughly what would it cost to get the equivalent of 2 6v GC batteries say about 230 ah's?


280Ah is probably the closest 'standard' LiFePO4 cell size. For that you are looking at $600 - $700 for the cells, another $60 - $120 for the BMS and maybe $100 for wiring equipment and some sort of case. I would guess $750 - $900 all up, cheaper if you are wiling to go with Alibaba and wait on freight, more expensive if you want it shipped from the US (amazon or ebay).

This would give you ~3000 cycles at 100% DOD so about 10x the usable Ah than lead acid over the life or the battery (if you plan to use it heavily or keep it a long time).
I guess it comes down to what your electrical requirements are VS cost per AH. I was thinking the price of these batteries would come down to make them competitive with lead acid batteries because of the big push to go to EV cars, but as some report the prices have gone up along with other camping supplies. I dry camp 95% of the time and am conservative when it comes to water and electricity. 230AH batteries last a week before they reach 50% SOC and by then I am out of water. So I guess if you full time or have much greater electrical requirement then $900 might make sense VS $200 for 26v GC batteries. One would think with more batteries being produced the cost will comedown dramatically at some time in the future.


The cost of these has fallen dramatically - the cells themselves are 1/3 - 1/2 the price of what they were three years ago, and drop in batteries can be had for 1/2 the price.

The prices are very competitive with lead acid if you are thinking about the total cost of ownership, rather than just the upfront cost. For your use case a 100Ah LiFePO4 seems like it would be sufficient, which is about $300 for the DIY route or $550 for the drop in route.
If I understand your post correctly because of a deeper discharge of Li Down to 0 SOC and with 2 6v GC batteries only going down 50% SOC gives only 115 usable AH's. Is that what you are saying?

pianotuna
Nomad II
Nomad II
Gjac,

Thanks.

If I were younger, I would be planning on Edison Cells which last 30 years. At that point, the electrolyte is changed out--and 30 years more! They are even more expensive than Li.
Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, 556 amp-hours of Telcom jars, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.

FWC
Explorer
Explorer
Gjac wrote:
FWC wrote:
Gjac wrote:
How much cheaper would it be to build your own? Roughly what would it cost to get the equivalent of 2 6v GC batteries say about 230 ah's?


280Ah is probably the closest 'standard' LiFePO4 cell size. For that you are looking at $600 - $700 for the cells, another $60 - $120 for the BMS and maybe $100 for wiring equipment and some sort of case. I would guess $750 - $900 all up, cheaper if you are wiling to go with Alibaba and wait on freight, more expensive if you want it shipped from the US (amazon or ebay).

This would give you ~3000 cycles at 100% DOD so about 10x the usable Ah than lead acid over the life or the battery (if you plan to use it heavily or keep it a long time).
I guess it comes down to what your electrical requirements are VS cost per AH. I was thinking the price of these batteries would come down to make them competitive with lead acid batteries because of the big push to go to EV cars, but as some report the prices have gone up along with other camping supplies. I dry camp 95% of the time and am conservative when it comes to water and electricity. 230AH batteries last a week before they reach 50% SOC and by then I am out of water. So I guess if you full time or have much greater electrical requirement then $900 might make sense VS $200 for 26v GC batteries. One would think with more batteries being produced the cost will comedown dramatically at some time in the future.


The cost of these has fallen dramatically - the cells themselves are 1/3 - 1/2 the price of what they were three years ago, and drop in batteries can be had for 1/2 the price.

The prices are very competitive with lead acid if you are thinking about the total cost of ownership, rather than just the upfront cost. For your use case a 100Ah LiFePO4 seems like it would be sufficient, which is about $300 for the DIY route or $550 for the drop in route.

Gjac
Explorer III
Explorer III
Hi pianotuna, I have been trying to follow all the new battery technologies, especially the ones that you post, because I know sooner or later I have to replace mine.

pianotuna
Nomad II
Nomad II
Gjac,

If flooded 230 amp-hours last you a week then I would not consider LI.

My own choice will be SiO2, if and when B.C. opens up to visitors.
Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, 556 amp-hours of Telcom jars, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.

Gjac
Explorer III
Explorer III
FWC wrote:
Gjac wrote:
How much cheaper would it be to build your own? Roughly what would it cost to get the equivalent of 2 6v GC batteries say about 230 ah's?


280Ah is probably the closest 'standard' LiFePO4 cell size. For that you are looking at $600 - $700 for the cells, another $60 - $120 for the BMS and maybe $100 for wiring equipment and some sort of case. I would guess $750 - $900 all up, cheaper if you are wiling to go with Alibaba and wait on freight, more expensive if you want it shipped from the US (amazon or ebay).

This would give you ~3000 cycles at 100% DOD so about 10x the usable Ah than lead acid over the life or the battery (if you plan to use it heavily or keep it a long time).
I guess it comes down to what your electrical requirements are VS cost per AH. I was thinking the price of these batteries would come down to make them competitive with lead acid batteries because of the big push to go to EV cars, but as some report the prices have gone up along with other camping supplies. I dry camp 95% of the time and am conservative when it comes to water and electricity. 230AH batteries last a week before they reach 50% SOC and by then I am out of water. So I guess if you full time or have much greater electrical requirement then $900 might make sense VS $200 for 26v GC batteries. One would think with more batteries being produced the cost will comedown dramatically at some time in the future.

Olivaw
Explorer
Explorer
Almot wrote:

Many camping items have disappeared and/or prices jumped up in April-May.
Solar generator is an overpriced combo of Li battery and inverter, $CAD 1,400 for 1,000 WH. I paid $CAD 800 for 1,500 WH, i.e. 3 times cheaper per KWH. With a single 1,000-1,500WH battery you don't want a big inverter, nice 300-400W PSU inverter would cost less than $CAD 300 and I already had one.

It does take 200-300W solar to keep it topped up, but for a weekend with modest loads you just discharge battery down to zero and go home. (Actually down to DOD 20% in my case, since it's 120 AH marketed as 100 AH). What I particularly like is 30 lbs weight - much better than 70 lbs FLA or AGM of the same nominal capacity (not to mention 2 times less of usable charge).


Our needs are modest. The CPAP will run on 12 V DC and consume roughly 12Ah per night.

We currently have 100W of solar, a PWM solar charge controller and a 100Ah FLA battery.

We just paid for our new rig so funds are stretched, Iโ€™d like to start small - maybe a single 100Ah LiFePO4 this year. Next year I hope to add 200W of solar, an MPPT charge controller and another 100Ah of storage capacity.

The SOK wonโ€™t fit. The reviews of Renogy are discouraging. That leaves Lynac, Volthium and Canbat. Lynacโ€™s True Power line is probably the best deal because, as you say, itโ€™s 120Ah.