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 > And so it begins. (In North America).

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mileshuff

Phoenix, AZ.

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Posted: 03/09/21 02:28pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Reisender wrote:

Either that or tie a big anchor to the Tesla to slow it down so the BMW can keep up.


Electrics are faster off the line because they develop 100% torque instantly. After that, gas often rules. Lets take a Telsa and BMW then head up a 6% mountain grade. My bet is on the BMW to easily run away after the initial 1/4 mile.

The Chevy Bolt is about as basic of a car as you can get and yet its MSRP is $40,000+. There are currently rebates pushing the base model cost down to $22,000 for stripped model. A base model Chevy Spark gas is $13,000. Nissan Versa $15,000. So yes, EV is more expensive and the gas savings will take many years to pay back.


2014 Winnebago 26FWRKS 5th Wheel
2007.5 Dodge 2500 6.7L Diesel
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Reisender

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Posted: 03/09/21 03:08pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

mileshuff wrote:

Reisender wrote:

Either that or tie a big anchor to the Tesla to slow it down so the BMW can keep up.


Electrics are faster off the line because they develop 100% torque instantly. After that, gas often rules. Lets take a Telsa and BMW then head up a 6% mountain grade. My bet is on the BMW to easily run away after the initial 1/4 mile.

The Chevy Bolt is about as basic of a car as you can get and yet its MSRP is $40,000+. There are currently rebates pushing the base model cost down to $22,000 for stripped model. A base model Chevy Spark gas is $13,000. Nissan Versa $15,000. So yes, EV is more expensive and the gas savings will take many years to pay back.


No idea on the race. My bet would be on the Tesla against a comparably priced BMW, uphill or downhill. I’ve driven lots of premium sports sedans. None come close to a Tesla in performance for the money.

Re the bolt. I don’t know about MSRP’s. Does anyone look at them anymore? Chevy bolts brand new are available at 18000 dollars and up. 22000 gets you a couple goodies. Not much. My point being that they are just not that expensive. And for six or seven thousand more you have a solid performer that will be a lot more fun to drive. But, to each his own.

mileshuff

Phoenix, AZ.

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Posted: 03/10/21 10:35am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Reisender wrote:

No idea on the race. My bet would be on the Tesla against a comparably priced BMW, uphill or downhill. I’ve driven lots of premium sports sedans. None come close to a Tesla in performance for the money.


Usually its a seat of the pants feeling that people love with EV's. Off the line they are quick, much faster than most gas. But accelerating from 60-80mph for passing etc., especially uphill I've found most performance gas vehicles will outrun EV's.

$6-$8,000 more for equivalent EV may be too much on low end cars where people buying because they are on a budget. It will take 7 years to break even for a gas car that gets 30mpg for a person that drives 15,000 miles at $3/gallon gas. That's not counting the cost of electricity. So saving money on gas expenses isn't why someone would buy an EV.

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Posted: 03/10/21 10:51am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Yah for sure. I don’t think everyone can afford an 18000 dollar EV. But break even changes based on price of gas and electricity of course. Power is super cheap here. Gas not so much.

Re the race, there is no equivalent gas BMW that will keep up to my wife’s Tesla. 60 to 80, 60 to 100 or 60 to 120...uphill, even with an anchor dragging behind it.

Nothing against BMW. I’m sure they will eventually make a killer EV. Tesla doesn’t has exclusivity on that. And for proof of that just go drive a Jaguar I-pace. My wife loves her model 3 and it’s exactly what she wanted. But if i come out of retirement...AGAIN...and I have to start commuting again it will be in a Jaguar I-pace. My favourite EV...although the new Tesla model S is looking good since the makeover.

Of course all JMHO.

* This post was edited 03/10/21 11:44am by an administrator/moderator *

Jarlaxle

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Posted: 03/28/21 04:36pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Reisender wrote:

Deb and Ed M wrote:

Matt_Colie wrote:

I can't wait to see what happens in California. They are outlawing ICE powered cars and don't have enough electricity to recharge the electrics. This is going to be fun to watch.

Matt


Ed and I were talking about this yesterday. In our rural neighborhood in Michigan, if my neighbor turns on his table saw, my lights dim. We are praying that none of our neighbors goes electric, because their one vehicle will probably make the rest of us haul out the kerosene lamps....

The infrastructure is NOT in place for a bunch of kilowatt gobblers.


Hmmm. So not sure I’m following here. A little over half of EV drivers just charge with a 120 volt 15 amp receptacle. We did for a few years. Works fine for typical commuting needs. The rest use either a dryer plug or a stove plug or sometimes a dedicated variable amp wall charge unit for some Tesla owners. We had a stove plug added..just because we could. Our townhouse has 100 amp service and the electrician said he could adda stove plug in the garage pretty cheap soooooo. I get that the US has some kind of 3rd world electrical grid but is it that bad in the US that even plugging in something like a space heater or turning on your clothes dryer can crash a neighbourhood? I had no idea. We have a property in SOCAL and have never experienced anything like that. Seems...sketchy.

Just sayin.


The greenies have stopped power plants from being built or upgraded, and many others are closed. Many plants still in operation are very old. (The largest plant in this area dates to the 1920s, with the newest operational generators over 20 years old and the backup almost 50. Two of the largest power plants in the area have shut down since 2015.)

Electrical demand has gone up (and will be going up more, as the greenies mandate dumber and dumber things, like banning gas heat and hot water in new residential buildings), the generation capacity has not kept pace.


John and Elizabeth (Liz), with Briza the size XL tabby
St. Bernard Marm, cats Vierna and Maya...RIP. ">
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1992 International Genesis school bus conversion

Jarlaxle

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Posted: 03/28/21 04:38pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

free radical wrote:

jetboater454 wrote:

I'm waiting to see battery powered reefers on semi trailers.[emoticon] Our company just bought 20 trailers with super efficient diesel units for $85,000 a piece. We can haul about 43,500 lbs of chicken in them. Add a battery pack that wont be light,and chicken prices will skyrocket. Also on the backhaul you still have to allow for battery weight.

Youre forgetin Tesla semi has no humoungous diesel engine,multi speed tranny and two huge tanks full o fuel,
Add the weight of all that and total weight of Tesla truck wont be much heavier.
And EV juice is way cheaper then diesel fuel.

Cost of driving EV truck will beat diesel hands down,and cost of maintanance also,
Tesla recoups electric energy descending hills while saving brakes,it all adds up to more savings.
Next few years will be interesting.


Figure out how much power it will take to recharge that truck. Now figure out how much you need to recharge 100 of them at a truck stop. Then figure out just how much you need to upgrade the service at that truck stop, since it now needs power on the level of a factory, or a professional sports stadium...at every truck stop.

Jarlaxle

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Posted: 03/28/21 04:44pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ford truck guy wrote:

There is no way any of the big cities could support 100% EV as it is now... Heck, there are shootings over parking spots that were shoveled after a snow, could you imagine what would happen over an electrical plug?

Most of the electrical grid is too old as it is, including the old school, screw in fuses.

Take a walk around some inner cities and tell us what you find.


More to the point, there is the elephant in the room: there are millions of people who have no way to charge an electric car. They park on the street, or in a large apartment/condo complex lot with no assigned spaces and no power.

Reisender

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Posted: 03/28/21 04:55pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Jarlaxle wrote:

ford truck guy wrote:

There is no way any of the big cities could support 100% EV as it is now... Heck, there are shootings over parking spots that were shoveled after a snow, could you imagine what would happen over an electrical plug?

Most of the electrical grid is too old as it is, including the old school, screw in fuses.

Take a walk around some inner cities and tell us what you find.


More to the point, there is the elephant in the room: there are millions of people who have no way to charge an electric car. They park on the street, or in a large apartment/condo complex lot with no assigned spaces and no power.


That’s just infrastructure and time. All new apartment buildings here have to have charging facilities for tenants. Sliding scale with more needed as time goes on. Many apartments here have powered parking anyway because of block heater use. Level 1 and level 2 charging is easy. Especially with a 30 year transition time.

Britain and Europe are adding L1 and L2 on lamp poles in many locations.

Where there’s a will there’s a way. [emoticon].

* This post was edited 03/28/21 05:06pm by Reisender *

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Posted: 03/28/21 05:09pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Jarlaxle wrote:

free radical wrote:

jetboater454 wrote:

I'm waiting to see battery powered reefers on semi trailers.[emoticon] Our company just bought 20 trailers with super efficient diesel units for $85,000 a piece. We can haul about 43,500 lbs of chicken in them. Add a battery pack that wont be light,and chicken prices will skyrocket. Also on the backhaul you still have to allow for battery weight.

Youre forgetin Tesla semi has no humoungous diesel engine,multi speed tranny and two huge tanks full o fuel,
Add the weight of all that and total weight of Tesla truck wont be much heavier.
And EV juice is way cheaper then diesel fuel.

Cost of driving EV truck will beat diesel hands down,and cost of maintanance also,
Tesla recoups electric energy descending hills while saving brakes,it all adds up to more savings.
Next few years will be interesting.


Figure out how much power it will take to recharge that truck. Now figure out how much you need to recharge 100 of them at a truck stop. Then figure out just how much you need to upgrade the service at that truck stop, since it now needs power on the level of a factory, or a professional sports stadium...at every truck stop.


Doable. Some supercharger sites already have north of 60 stalls. I’m sure the utilities will figure it out...if they want to sell their product. .).

Dutch_12078

Winters south, summers north

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Posted: 03/28/21 06:49pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Wow... Six pages of posts that apparently don't know the difference between "petroleum diesel fuel" and "bio-diesel fuel". HB3305 specifically calls out "petroleum diesel" for a reason. I don't think it has a prayer of passing, but outlawing all diesel fuel in favor of EV's does not appear to be its purpose.


Dutch
2001 GBM Landau 34' Class A
F53 chassis, Triton V10, TST TPMS
Bigfoot Automatic Leveling System
2011 Toyota RAV4 4WD/Remco pump
ReadyBrute Elite tow bar/Blue Ox baseplate


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