Good Sam Club Open Roads Forum: LiFePo4 vs Lead Acid...Some points of interest.
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 > LiFePo4 vs Lead Acid...Some points of interest.

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3 tons

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Posted: 04/14/21 11:25pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Diet Coke vs Diet Pepsi - always the age old argument...

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Posted: 04/15/21 03:23am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Freep wrote:

Moot Point vs. Mute Point
Moot means unimportant or not worth talking about. Mute means completely silent. Moot and mute might seem like similar words at first glance, but they are pronounced differently. Mute rhymes with cute, whereas moot rhymes with boot. Nevertheless, some people still mishear the phrase moot point as mute point. But don’t let that confuse you. The correct phrase is moot point, not mute point.



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Posted: 04/15/21 09:37am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

3 tons wrote:

Diet Coke vs Diet Pepsi - always the age old argument...

3 tons
What? Diet Coke or water. There is no Pepsi in consideration [emoticon]


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3 tons

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Posted: 04/15/21 06:17pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Agreed!!

3 tons, still searching for Diogenes in the ‘no time-outs’ High NV Desert [emoticon]

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Posted: 04/18/21 08:24pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

StirCrazy wrote:



I disagree here, I do agree the Victron is good, but I dont agree they are worth the price. there are so many unit that use the exact same software/hardware out there for less than 1/4 the price. back in the day they used to be the best, not there just riding on there old name and trying to justify prices that are 400% more than they should be.

Steve


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Posted: 04/19/21 06:48am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

FWC wrote:

StirCrazy wrote:



I disagree here, I do agree the Victron is good, but I dont agree they are worth the price. there are so many unit that use the exact same software/hardware out there for less than 1/4 the price. back in the day they used to be the best, not there just riding on there old name and trying to justify prices that are 400% more than they should be.

Steve


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I believe I just did [emoticon]

Victron is like GO Power or like battleborn. they came out with a quality product when there wasnt much compitition and they could set there price. now that there is lots of compatition they dont want to drop there price and start add compains to trash the quality of other manufactures, say because they are made in china. well both good and bad quality can come out of china and that depends largly on the specs the inporting company gives the manufacture. most of Victron probably comes over in sea cans and there good quality. my 50 buck battery monitor is the same set up as the 250.00 victron (cdn pricing) the only thing different is the victron has bluetooth. bluetooth would be worth an extra 20 to 30 bucks ,but not 200.00.

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FWC

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Posted: 04/19/21 08:19am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I guess I took your comment to mean there was another monitor that had the same features as the Victron (identical hardware and software) at a much lower price.

I am yet to see a $50 battery monitor (or really any other battery monitor) that has the feature set (either hardware, software or support) of the Victron battery monitor. You can argue all day whether the extra features of the Victron are worth the extra price, to some they will be, to others they won't be. Same as some people are fine with a $5 harbor freight voltmeter, and some see value in a $120 Fluke voltmeter, they both do the same thing, but they are in no way identical.

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Posted: 04/19/21 08:20am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

StirCrazy wrote:


Victron is like GO Power or like Battleborn. They came out with a quality product when there wasn't much competition and they could set their price. Now that there is lots of competition they don't want to drop their price and start ad campaigns to trash the quality of other manufactures, say because they are made in China. Well, both good and bad quality can come out of china and that depends largely on the specs the importing company gives the manufacturer. Most of Victron probably comes over in sea cans and they're good quality. My 50 buck battery monitor is the same set up as the 250.00 Victron (CDN pricing) the only thing different is the Victron has Bluetooth. Bluetooth would be worth an extra 20 to 30 bucks, but not 200.00.

Steve


Keep in mind that Victron offers a lot more than just Bluetooth. Many of their components coordinate with each other, Victron also uses CAN bus, have developed the Venus Operating System for their monitoring and control features and opened it up for developers and DIYers. For example, a developer can run the Victron operating system on a Raspberry Pi and create their own custom monitoring and automation. And a lot of people do this.

So if you need that sort of interoperability and flexibility, it's hard to beat Victron. If you also don't mind paying the premium, then Victron is pretty much impossible to beat.

With all that said, it still looks like the claim that Victron uses some special lookup table for their Smart Shunt is false. It has a lot of great features, but that isn't one of them from what I can tell. And even if it is true, with most LiFePo4 packs you'll never be able to tell the difference between counting Coulombs and counting Coulombs plus using a lookup table.


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Posted: 04/19/21 08:42am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I guess one of the reasons I decided to buy the Victron over other cheaper alternatives was that Victron has app updates when new technology or problems occur to keep it inline with changing technology and connected to other victron products....

FWC

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Posted: 04/19/21 10:56am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Freep wrote:



Keep in mind that Victron offers a lot more than just Bluetooth. Many of their components coordinate with each other, Victron also uses CAN bus, have developed the Venus Operating System for their monitoring and control features and opened it up for developers and DIYers. For example, a developer can run the Victron operating system on a Raspberry Pi and create their own custom monitoring and automation. And a lot of people do this.

So if you need that sort of interoperability and flexibility, it's hard to beat Victron. If you also don't mind paying the premium, then Victron is pretty much impossible to beat.

With all that said, it still looks like the claim that Victron uses some special lookup table for their Smart Shunt is false. It has a lot of great features, but that isn't one of them from what I can tell. And even if it is true, with most LiFePo4 packs you'll never be able to tell the difference between counting Coulombs and counting Coulombs plus using a lookup table.


There are a couple of features that make the Victron more accurate than many of the cheap-o monitors:

For lithium, an important feature is automatic syncing - you can program into the Victron what your fully charged voltage and tail current is, thus when you know the battery is full, the monitor automatically syncs SOC to 100%. This compensates for integral errors, which are always an issue with Ah meters/coulomb counters.

For lead acid, a big issue is charge efficiency - you need to put in more Ah to replace what you have used. The efficiency is typically around 90%. For example if you use 80 Ah from a 100 Ah battery, then charge it back up, the meter will show 100% full when you are still 8Ah short of full (actually 92% SOC), you do this for a week and the meter will be off by 50%. This is not a huge deal if the battery can sit on absorb for hours, but if you are trying to charge as quickly as you can, it is a big deal.

If you have a simple system and mostly camp with hook ups and maybe off the grid for a weekend, then the cheap meters are probably OK. If you have a more complex system and spend extended periods of the grid then you will appreciate the extra features of a better monitor. They are definitely not identical.

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