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 > Basics of Lithium conversion... I'm lost!

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3 tons

NV.

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Posted: 04/24/21 05:49pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I’m in complete agreement Mex, know that your constructive input is greatly appreciated...

3 tons, nowadays a man kinda of a different world...

MEXICOWANDERER

las peñas, michoacan, mexico

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Posted: 04/24/21 07:46pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

But given the attributes of partial recharge survivability the new light metal technology is a wonder. Sixty years ago when I started RVing there were no Deep Cycle batteries. No golf car batteries. Only some 500lb. Electric forklift batteries. And few if any consumer battery chargers. Lighting in campers and trailers was wall mounted LPG lanterns. Tar top car batteries were somewhat cyclable.

FWC

The Wilderness

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Posted: 04/25/21 12:55pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

StirCrazy wrote:

seams Pianotuna keeps mising the fact that while his batteries will work at -40, they only have 40% of there original capacity, but he doesnt own any so he wouldnt know.

so if you want to do 800 AH of availble capacity you will need 18? 100 amp hour Sio2 batteries, do you have the space to store that? for LiFePo4 all I need is three 6" x 8" x 11" 280 AH batteries to have 840AH of usable capacity available, plus because of the smaller size and such it is condusive to tuck into a heated area so I don't have to worry about any capacity loss due to temprature. a lot of people seam to think it is some magic but they are simple to use and charge.

as for the plane in the millitary or comercial, the reason is largly based of previous versions of Li that were prone to thermal runaway and could cause fires, not because of the capacity or anything else. LFP is not suseptable to that as perviouse versions like nickel hydride and other varients.

I notice every day that people who have never used LFP keep posting scare tactics to try prove that SiO2 is better even though they have no experiacnce with it and are going off sales sheets.... but oh well..

Steve


Interesting point about capacity at low temperatures. It would be worth doing an energy analysis to see if you would be better to use some energy to heat the batteries, so that you can get their rated capacity, or two leave them unheated and only be able to use 40% of their rated capacity.

If the camper will be heated anyway with propane, then it almost certainly makes sense to heat the batteries. Either move them inside, or given that seems not to be a preferred option, run a heat duct to the battery compartment and insulate the outside walls. If you need to use electricity to heat the batteries, it is less clear what the best option would be, but certainly worth considering. The other big advantage is that you could then use any batteries, and save a bunch of money.

EMD360

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Posted: 04/25/21 05:18pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Fascinating. I bought Lifepo4 for a trolling motor battery box. Three 20 AH batteries in series. Just did a test and ran a 3 amp load for about 19 hours before the inverter beeped and shut down at 10.9 volts. That jumped up to 11.3 volts when I removed the load. That was pretty close to the 60 AH rated. I’m probably losing some power through wiring. I paid $200 for the three batterie and of course a NAPA 62 AH marine battery costs half of that. But my whole battery box weighs 22 lbs instead of 44 just for the battery. Plus these are guaranteed for 3 years and slated to last far longer. So a decent trade off. I’m going with 2 Lion Safari batteries for the RV that fit the group 24 space and will get 210 AH with a progressive dynamics charger for lithium’s and a dc to dc converter for the alternator side. A bit expensive but a good amount of power to use, compatible with my portable solar panels and hopefully a long life. Since this RV is new to us I’m willing to spend more to not have to switch out the batteries every 3 years or so.


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C Schomer

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Posted: 04/25/21 11:54pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I'm back and I'm going to keep my lead acid batteries and replace the FlowRite caps. My Duracell egc2's are only 4 y.o. And the plates still look great. Besides that, Online searches don't show any gc2 agms in stock anywhere. Craig

steveh27

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Posted: 04/26/21 05:20am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

https://diysolarforum.com/threads/lifepo4-battery-warmer-install.14485/

This thread shows how to install warming pads and a thermostat controller for LiFePo4 batteries. Mine is shown on page 5 for my Class B. Works great.

StirCrazy

Kamloops, BC, Canada

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Posted: 04/26/21 06:43am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

steveh27 wrote:

https://diysolarforum.com/threads/lifepo4-battery-warmer-install.14485/

This thread shows how to install warming pads and a thermostat controller for LiFePo4 batteries. Mine is shown on page 5 for my Class B. Works great.


thats interesting, a lot of them seam to wrap the batteries in insulation tight, then have the pad stuck to the side. wouldnt it make more sence to have that insulation an inch or two away from the battery so you could get a bit of air movment and use less pads to heat more batteries? just thinking here so if it has been done and didnt work I would be curious as to why.

seams to me if you have the space to put say 2 or 3" of good insulation with sy a 2" air gap between the batteries and the inside of the insulated box and say a tiny ultra low draw fan to cirulate the air, you could probably heat several batteries with one heating pad and cut the amp draw for that purpose. of course this would depend on the space you have also I guess.

Steve


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StirCrazy

Kamloops, BC, Canada

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Posted: 04/26/21 06:46am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

C Schomer wrote:

I'm back and I'm going to keep my lead acid batteries and replace the FlowRite caps. My Duracell egc2's are only 4 y.o. And the plates still look great. Besides that, Online searches don't show any gc2 agms in stock anywhere. Craig


yes, if there still in good shape then there is no point getting rid of them unless they just don't meet your needs. this is the problem I have right now. My 5th wheel needs new batteries but my capmer doesnt. so I am just going to using everything I ordered in the 5th wheel and have over 1000 ah availble, then when the camper batteries are older I take one of the batteries and move it there. the shipping and cost on 16 cells just makes it so price wise it is way cheeper for me to order them all now. who knows I may sell the GC batteries in the camper and switch it over right away...

Steve

vermilye

Oswego, NY, USA

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Posted: 04/26/21 08:29am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

steveh27 wrote:

https://diysolarforum.com/threads/lifepo4-battery-warmer-install.14485/

This thread shows how to install warming pads and a thermostat controller for LiFePo4 batteries. Mine is shown on page 5 for my Class B. Works great.
A number of manufacturers are now producing models that have heaters built into the battery. Moving the heater close to the individual cells reduces the amount of power necessary to heat them during charging.


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steveh27

Grosse Pointe Woods, MI

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Posted: 04/27/21 04:10am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

StirCrazy wrote:

steveh27 wrote:

https://diysolarforum.com/threads/lifepo4-battery-warmer-install.14485/

This thread shows how to install warming pads and a thermostat controller for LiFePo4 batteries. Mine is shown on page 5 for my Class B. Works great.


thats interesting, a lot of them seam to wrap the batteries in insulation tight, then have the pad stuck to the side. wouldnt it make more sence to have that insulation an inch or two away from the battery so you could get a bit of air movment and use less pads to heat more batteries? just thinking here so if it has been done and didnt work I would be curious as to why.

seams to me if you have the space to put say 2 or 3" of good insulation with sy a 2" air gap between the batteries and the inside of the insulated box and say a tiny ultra low draw fan to cirulate the air, you could probably heat several batteries with one heating pad and cut the amp draw for that purpose. of course this would depend on the space you have also I guess.

Steve


In my Class B there is no room for insulation. That's why I wrapped the 1/2" neoprene insulation around the outside of the box. My Ultra Heat pad only draws 2 amps from the batteries. And I do not use it unless it is below freezing and I need to charge the batteries. It takes less than 2 hours to warm the batteries up for charging.

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