Good Sam Club Open Roads Forum: One Great Big EV Thread
Open Roads Forum Already a member? Login here.   If not, Register Today!  |  Help

Newest  |  Active  |  Popular  |  RVing FAQ Forum Rules  |  Forum Posting Help and Support  |  Contact  

Search:   Advanced Search

Search only in Around the Campfire

Open Roads Forum  >  Around the Campfire

 > One Great Big EV Thread

This Topic Is Closed  |  Print Page  |  Post New Topic  | 
Page of 31  
Prev  |  Next
Timmo!

Oregon

Senior Member

Joined: 03/10/2005

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 05/05/21 10:32am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Yah, there is no easy answer in replacing a fuel (gas) that has been widely used for over 100 years. Converting to an unknown and unproven alternative requires courage, lots of money and attending church daily (prayers).

If EV technology is sound, then it should be sound enough to stand on it's own. I am against all forms of "target subsidies" as that just allows politicians to select the winners and losers (based on who donates to their campaigns), or basically Robin Hood type wealth distribution (take from the rich and give to the poor).

Given the choices to ship fuel by rail, truck or have it directly piped (ala Keystone), then the lessor of two evils will always be pipeline. Trains are electric motors that require a diesel engine for electric power, and due to poor railroad tracks, derail easily. Trucks hauling tankers consume roadway space (think rush hour traffic jams), cross countless bridges that have deferred maintenance issues, and trucks are air polluters that consume massive amount of diesel. IMO, a pipeline is cleaner option of the 3 bad choices available.

* This post was edited 05/05/21 12:40pm by an administrator/moderator *


(Formerly known as SPRey)
Tim & Sue
Hershey (Sheltie)
2005 F150 4x4 Lariat 5.4L 3.73 Please buy a Hybrid...I need your gas for my 35.7 gallon tank!
2000 Nash 19B...comfortably pimped with a real Queen Size Bed


BCSnob

Middletown, MD

Senior Member

Joined: 02/23/2002

View Profile



Posted: 05/05/21 10:49am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

So shipping fuel by pipeline is greener (than shipping by other methods) over the full lifecycle (building and the use) so it’s better but that logic is unacceptable to you when applied to the full lifecycle of BEVs vs full lifecycle of ICEs. For example: distribution of fuel vs electricity over the lifecycle of each vehicle type.

Just to be clear, I’m not convinced bevs are greener than ices over their lifecycles; however, I’ve not written bevs off as not being greener (I’ve not seen a full lifecycle comparison of both).

All you’ve posted on are the environmental impacts of bevs without examining the impacts of ices being offset with the adoption of bevs. How does that “prove” bevs are worse for the environment than ices? Like the options for transporting fuel, vehicles are bad for the environment; but which ones are the better of the options since I don’t see our population adopting walking and bicycling over all other forms of transportation.

Take a look at the change in air quality vividly shown in the documentary “The Year Earth Changed” and then try to convince us that ices are not bad for the environment and we need to examine if alternates are better.

* This post was last edited 05/05/21 11:22am by BCSnob *   View edit history

Yosemite Sam1

Under the pines.

Senior Member

Joined: 03/28/2018

View Profile



Good Sam RV Club Member

Offline
Posted: 05/05/21 10:56am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Timmo! wrote:

...a pipeline is cleaner option of the 3 bad choices available.



The pipeline, exploration, drilling... had sailed.

The fact is that even existing pumps are being capped. Oil exploration leases are left unused and minimal investments are being made for increased productions.

The global view is that oil consumption will increase as countries recovery goes underway, will plateau and then trend down.

Stock analysts call oil company as dead money.

Reisender

NA

Senior Member

Joined: 12/09/2018

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 05/05/21 11:09am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Kind of last months news but from a different source. GM’s Silverado EV info. For the GM crowd.

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/general-moto........ectric-pickup-at-detroit-plant-1.1586749

JRscooby

Indepmo

Senior Member

Joined: 06/10/2019

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 05/05/21 01:20pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Timmo! wrote:



If EV technology is sound, then it should be sound enough to stand on it's own. I am against all forms of "target subsidies" as that just allows politicians to select the winners and losers (based on who donates to their campaigns), or basically Robin Hood type wealth distribution (take from the rich and give to the poor).


First, you protest the idea of government helping a new industry that has a chance to reduce the use of oil. But I bet you, like all other consumers would squeal like a pig under a gate about the increase in cost if government stopped the subsidies of the fossil fuel industry.
As for the take from rich, give to poor idea, money does not breed. Rich mostly does not produce wealth, work does. Over the last 40+ years, the producers of wealth have had got smaller and smaller of share of that wealth.

RambleOnNW

Pacific Northwest

Senior Member

Joined: 08/06/2010

View Profile



Good Sam RV Club Member


Posted: 05/05/21 01:28pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Green hydrogen will replace a lot of oil and gas applications.

Any current fuel can be synthesized from hydrogen + carbon dioxide.

The largest green hydrogen plant in North America announced producing 45 tons/day.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/........h-america-s-largest-green-hydrogen-plant

Here is a giant mining truck powered by hydrogen:
https://www.mining.com/web/hydrogen-to-f........t-mining-trucks-in-green-shift-by-anglo/

Hydrogen can certainly power a pickup pulling a trailer.

Europe will replace all diesel semi-trucks with batteries and hydrogen by 2040, just 19 years from now:

https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/........o-Stop-Diesel-Vehicle-Sales-By-2040.html

Gaussin of France has produced a hydrogen ‘Skateboard’ reminiscent of the Tesla battery skateboard. Trucks can be built on that:

https://www.h2-view.com/story/gaussin-un........ls-100-hydrogen-skateboard-for-trucking/

Hydrogen is much more common around the world. Few companies in the US.
Plug Power, Chevron, 3M, GM, Baker Hughes out of 109+ companies.

https://hydrogencouncil.com/en/newmemberannouncement2021-1/

200+ hydrogen projects worth $300 billion+ worldwide:

https://hydrogencouncil.com/en/hydrogen-........re-than-300-billion-in-project-pipeline/

* This post was edited 05/05/21 02:31pm by RambleOnNW *


2006 Jayco 28', E450 6.8L V10, Bilstein HDs,
Roadmaster Anti-Sway Bars, Blue Ox TigerTrak

Reisender

NA

Senior Member

Joined: 12/09/2018

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 05/05/21 01:47pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I have no problem with hydrogen. I can see getting the price down so it’s competitive with electricity might be a challenge though. That and there is a whole bunch of people getting used to the convenience of fueling at home. Not sure if that is doable with hydrogen. I can see some advantages for over the road trucking though. Not to mention vehicles like our F350 dually diesels etc.

Yosemite Sam1

Under the pines.

Senior Member

Joined: 03/28/2018

View Profile



Good Sam RV Club Member

Offline
Posted: 05/05/21 01:57pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I wish hydrogen success and being able to overcome the challenge in handling and storage.

Gdetrailer

PA

Senior Member

Joined: 01/05/2007

View Profile



Posted: 05/05/21 02:02pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

RambleOnNW wrote:

Green hydrogen will replace a lot of oil and gas applications.

Any current fuel can be synthesized from hydrogen + carbon dioxide.

The largest green hydrogen plant in North America announced producing 45 tons/day.



[emoticon]

Read HERE

"The trouble is how to make it in the first place. Most hydrogen today is generated by heating coal and natural gas with steam, but that process emits a lot of carbon dioxide, nullifying hydrogen’s eco-credentials."

Truth about Hydrogen Power

"At first glance, hydrogen would seem an ideal substitute for these problematic fuels. Pound for pound, hydrogen contains almost three times as much energy as natural gas, and when consumed its only emission is pure, plain water. But unlike oil and gas, hydrogen is not a fuel. It is a way of storing or transporting energy. You have to make it before you can use it — generally by extracting hydrogen from fossil fuels, or by using electricity to split it from water."

Hydrogen Problem No One Is Talking about

"When hydrogen advocates talk about the bright future of the technology, they focus on the costs associated with the electricity needed for the electrolysis. But electrolysis, besides electricity, needs water.

Tons of water - literally.

One industry source told Oilprice that the production of one ton of hydrogen through electrolysis required an average of nine tons of water. But to get these nine tons of water, it would not be enough to just divert a nearby river. The water that the electrolyzer breaks down into constituent elements needs to be purified

The process of water purification, for its part, is rather wasteful. According to the same source, water treatment systems typically require some two tons of impure water to produce one ton of purified water. In other words, one ton of hydrogen actually needs not nine but 18 tons of water. Accounting for losses, the ratio is closer to 20 tons of water for every 1 ton of hydrogen.

Speaking of water purification, organic chemists explain that the simplest way to do this is by distilling it. This method is cheap because it only needs electricity, but it is not fast. Regarding the electricity cost, distilling a liter of water requires 2.58 megajoules of energy, which translates into 0.717 kWh, on average.

This doesn’t look like much at first glance, but let’s see how things look on a larger scale. Germany is the country with the most ambitious plans for green hydrogen. The cost of electricity for non-household users in Germany was an average of $0.19 (0.16 euro) per kWh as of last year. At a power consumption rate of 0.717 kWh, the distillation of a liter of water, then, would cost $0.14 (0.1147 euro). For a ton of water, that would be $135.14 (114.72 euro).

"


RambleOnNW

Pacific Northwest

Senior Member

Joined: 08/06/2010

View Profile



Good Sam RV Club Member


Posted: 05/05/21 02:05pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Reisender wrote:

I have no problem with hydrogen. I can see getting the price down so it’s competitive with electricity might be a challenge though. That and there is a whole bunch of people getting used to the convenience of fueling at home. Not sure if that is doable with hydrogen. I can see some advantages for over the road trucking though. Not to mention vehicles like our F350 dually diesels etc.


Charging up at home is certainly convenient however electricity in the quantities needed for vehicle charging is not portable. When hurricanes or winter storms take down power lines then home vehicle charging will be left high and dry.

This Topic Is Closed  |  Print Page  |  Post New Topic  | 
Page of 31  
Prev  |  Next

Open Roads Forum  >  Around the Campfire

 > One Great Big EV Thread
Search:   Advanced Search

Search only in Around the Campfire


New posts No new posts
Closed, new posts Closed, no new posts
Moved, new posts Moved, no new posts

Adjust text size:




© 2021 CWI, Inc. © 2021 Good Sam Enterprises, LLC. All Rights Reserved.