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 > Charge wizard with Lithium upgrade to Converter charger?

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otrfun

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Posted: 05/03/21 08:26pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

3 tons wrote:

The PD Lithium specific model is extremely flawed...Why??... Because it continues to charge the battery long after the battery is fully charged (eventually shortening battery life) and cannot be shut off without entirely disabling the 12v converter only function.....This is why their regular model is better, while it’ll deliver the necessary 14.4v when using the Charge Wizard set to Boost, and the 13.6v Absorption will be of no consequence...However, Equalization mode will need to be defeated....

3 tons
The Progressive Dynamic EQ mode only applies 14.4v for 15 min every 21 hours before dropping back down to 13.2v or 13.6v. Battleborn only expressed concern about floating their LifePo4's at 14.6v 24/7, weeks/months at a time. Very significant difference.

IMO, anyone with a LifePo4 who has the need to leave their rig unattended for weeks, months at a time should simply disconnect them--ideally with a 40-50% SOC, regardless what kind of converter/charger they have. With a parasitic discharge rate of only 1-2% a month, they'll be fine for a very, very long time---at least a year or more. Even 13.6v will quickly float LifePo4's to 97-98% SOC. Unless I'm missing something here, what's the point? Is it possible this is the reason Progressive Dynamic designed a single-stage 14.6v converter to begin with? They saw no urgent need to float a LifePo4?

* This post was edited 05/03/21 09:09pm by otrfun *

SFVdave

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Posted: 05/03/21 08:57pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Called Battleborn and it is a single step charging with the Lithium upgrade. They said PD is working on multiple step converters, but it's not available for mine yet. Working it out for return of the PD4560Licsv. They are always courteous and helpful.

time2roll

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Posted: 05/03/21 09:09pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Yes looking for a PD lithium that charges to 14.2 and shuts off. When battery hits 13.2 PD should come back on until it holds 14.2 for short duration. No equalization. Or how about adjustable. I would buy one tomorrow.


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otrfun

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Posted: 05/03/21 09:16pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

time2roll wrote:

Yes looking for a PD lithium that charges to 14.2 and shuts off. When battery hits 13.2 PD should come back on until it holds 14.2 for short duration. No equalization. Or how about adjustable. I would buy one tomorrow.
Great idea! 3-stage: 0/13.2v/14.2v. A totally programmable version (with a zero volt option) would be ideal. I would prefer a 14.6v bulk mode.

Itinerant1

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Posted: 05/03/21 10:14pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I like my programmable inverter with all the wants of your dream converters. [emoticon]


12v 500ah (5,120Wh usable), 20 cells_ 4s5p (GBS LFMP battery system). 8 CTI 160 watt panels (1,280 watts)2s4p,Panels mounted flat. Magnum PT100 SCC, Magnum 3012 hybrid inverter, ME-ARC 50. Installed 4/2016 been on 24/7/365, daily 35-45% DOD 1,600+ cycles.

3 tons

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Posted: 05/03/21 10:42pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

otrfun wrote:

3 tons wrote:

The PD Lithium specific model is extremely flawed...Why??... Because it continues to charge the battery long after the battery is fully charged (eventually shortening battery life) and cannot be shut off without entirely disabling the 12v converter only function.....This is why their regular model is better, while it’ll deliver the necessary 14.4v when using the Charge Wizard set to Boost, and the 13.6v Absorption will be of no consequence...However, Equalization mode will need to be defeated....

3 tons
The Progressive Dynamic EQ mode only applies 14.4v for 15 min every 21 hours before dropping back down to 13.2v or 13.6v. Battleborn only expressed concern about floating their LifePo4's at 14.6v 24/7, weeks/months at a time. Very significant difference.

IMO, anyone with a LifePo4 who has the need to leave their rig unattended for weeks, months at a time should simply disconnect them--ideally with a 40-50% SOC, regardless what kind of converter/charger they have. With a parasitic discharge rate of only 1-2% a month, they'll be fine for a very, very long time---at least a year or more. Even 13.6v will quickly float LifePo4's to 97-98% SOC. Unless I'm missing something here, what's the point? Is it possible this is the reason Progressive Dynamic designed a single-stage 14.6v converter to begin with? They saw no urgent need to float a LifePo4?


Agreed, I disconnect mine while in longer term storage...Charging a LiFePO4 is slightly different than FWC’s, but once one gets past the keyboard mythology (lol [emoticon] ) it is in no way difficult....

3 tons

otrfun

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Posted: 05/05/21 07:16am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Finally got around to looking at the lithium charge options on our Renogy 40a dc to dc charger we have mounted in our truck camper. Bad news, the lithium mode is single-stage just like the PD, no float. However, the good news, in lithium mode you have 7 voltages to select from: 12.6v, 12.8v, 13.0v, 14.0v, 14.2v, 14.4v, and 14.6v. In lead acid/AGM/GEL mode it becomes a 2-stage charger (absorption and float). 3 absorptions choices: 14.1v, 14.4v or 14.7v. 3 float choices: 13.2v, 13.5v, and 13.8v.

Interesting that both Renogy and Progressive Dynamic (and no-doubt others) use single-stage lithium chargers. Got to wonder whether these manufacturers saw no harm in floating a LifePo4 indefinitely at higher voltages (let the BMS do the dirty work??), or they just assumed the end-user would simply disconnect/turn-off the charger for long-term storage (based on LifePo4's very low parasitics).

Itinerant1

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Posted: 05/05/21 07:31am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Or they just wanted to hurry and get on the new band wagon for profits. Fix it/ update it down the road. Buyer beware of the sales pitch, atleast some folks are catching on to the charging requirements but many still are trusting souls lost in the forest.

noteven

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Posted: 05/05/21 08:20am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Why do litium batteries require a "float" mode?

Doesn't the BMS accept charge until full then shut off? Then turn on again when charge can be accepted?

Thanks

Itinerant1

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Posted: 05/05/21 08:34am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

This has been covered already. BMS is there (or should be) as a last line of protection not the first.

"Float" if used in a daily cycling of the batteries won't hurt it but if your going to float them at storage for long periods of time then it could shorten the battery life.

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