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 > PD 9100 AL converter/charger.

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EMD360

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Posted: 05/07/21 02:07pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I purchased the new two stage PD charger for two new Lion Energy UT 1300 lithium batteries. I also bought a Renogy DC to DC converter to protect the chassis battery.
I have read that the PD can be installed as an auxiliary charger keeping the WFCO 8955 but I can’t find that information again. I have an outside outlet that I could extend inside to plug the charger in. But I’m unsure of the wiring from the WFCO. Seems I would need to connect the charging side to the batteries but keep the converter side connected to 12v load. Apparently it’s safer to run existing 12v through the WFCO at standard voltage instead of feeding 14.6v. The batteries are not in yet so I can’t experiment until they are delivered.

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Posted: 05/07/21 02:59pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Get rid of the WFCO. The new charger is rated at 60A so place it as close to the batteries as possible with adequate wiring fused as needed based on the distance. This is the primary consideration, then wire in 120V as needed.

Extremely doubtful that the wiring from the WFCO is adequate for the new charger.

Suggestion: Research and understand wiring loss. At 14.6V and 60A inadequate wiring can easily result in excessive voltage drop. And this is directly related to the wire gauge size and distance.


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otrfun

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Posted: 05/07/21 03:08pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

EMD360, every RV we've owned has had the output of the converter, the input to the 12vdc fuse panel (located in the power center), and the batteries, all paralleled together. They are/were not isolated. If there's an inverter or dc to dc charger, they will also be paralleled with the batteries, too.

A bit of debate whether 14.6v does any long-term harm to some 12vdc appliances. It will require a bit of work to isolate the 14.6v lithium charger voltage from the 12vdc panel. Not sure it's worth the hassle.

* This post was edited 05/07/21 03:28pm by otrfun *

BFL13

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Posted: 05/07/21 03:13pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

The new deck mount goes on the battery bank and the existing wires from the battery bank to the DC fuse panel stay as is. You can leave the "lower portion" converter part of the WFCO in place and just not use it.

The DC-DC output also goes on the battery bank, as does any solar controller's output.

You might need a positive buss bar to hold all the wires and just one fat wire from that to the battery. All the neg wires go to the shunt for your battery monitor including the wire that goes from the frame to the neg battery post now--it will go to the shunt and only one fat wire then goes from the shunt to the battery neg. If the shunt can't hold all those neg wires, then you need a neg buss for them and then a wire from it to the shunt and another from the shunt to the battery neg.

(Of course you will have a monitor now to keep track of your new batts)

The new two stage drops to 13.x once the batts are full? so no worries about long time 14.6.


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EMD360

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Posted: 05/07/21 03:33pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

So the recommendation is to just replace the WFCO charger with this one? I bought it because it does drop voltage after the batteries are charged. But it puts out 14.6 I believe on the converter side. Maybe not now that it’s a two stage. Might have to measure. If the existing negatives can be left alone then the new positive can wire to the old distribution system?
If I wire this to the WFCO seems I would not need the plug I would cut it off and wire to the 120v side right? PD recommends this charger to replace WFCO8955 and I believe the wiring is adequate. Don’t have room in the battery compartment for this device but I could run a larger wire to the batteries. The existing wire just runs under the coach. It’s only a few feet away from the end of the bed to the stair battery case. I have to ground this charger separately anyway.
I thought I’d put in a bus bar for negative and a fuse on the positive side. I was debating the fancy battery monitor. Will probably get it though. I just like these toys too much.
I would like to see the wiring by someone who kept the WFCO charger though.

* This post was edited 05/07/21 03:42pm by EMD360 *

otrfun

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Posted: 05/07/21 04:06pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

The two stage PD 14.6v lithium converter/charger should automatically drop down to a 13.6v - 13.8v float after a few hours of charge time (time varies due to SOC). Not sure if the PD Charge Wizard works on the new 2-stage PD lithium chargers. If they do, you have the option to manually force it down to the lower float voltage with the Charge Wizard.

As for proper wire/cable size. What will be/is the length of the wire/cable run from the converter(s), dc to dc charger, etc. to the batteries? Here is an online Voltage Drop Calculator you can use that might be helpful (click on the Estimated Resistance tab). Ideally, you should strive for a 2-3% voltage drop under max load.

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Posted: 05/07/21 08:13pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Quote:

If the existing negatives can be left alone then the new positive can wire to the old distribution system?
UNLIKELY.

Use the posted wiring calculator with 14.6V 60A 5' of 10 ga wire. You'll get a SIGNIFICANT voltage drop to the battery.

60A at 14.6V requires large wire and/or short distance to minimize loss.

You posted "a few feet". What is the exact length? Wire size and length are important factors in heavy amp 12V systems.

EMD360

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Posted: 05/08/21 03:51am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I’ll have to measure to find the exact length but not more than 4’ including extra for getting around obstacles. The current wires run under the chassis. I am familiar with voltage drop and have used the online resources in the past. I have never replaced a converter though I added dc circuit to our old one. There is an old resource I read years ago called 12v life or something that had all the basics. My concern is that PD has instructions and videos for connecting to the distribution panel but nothing about the AC side. I have seen posts that mention adding an outlet for the 9100 and I have a circuit to an outdoor outlet that I could use. But is that necessary? I have time to figure it out. Can’t install until the new batteries arrive.

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Posted: 05/08/21 04:32am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I would disable the WFCO, not remove it but Disable it... Two ways to to do this

The Best: There is a breaker most likely labeled CONV. Turn it off and insure that it does not "Kill" anything else (IE Bedroom outlets) Remove the wire from it and either tape or wire nut it off (I'd tape Install a new wire (12 ga Romex is my choice and if it is a 20 amp breaker indicated 14 is ok for 15 amp breaker) from the breaker to an outlet box you install where you are putting the Progressive Dynamics unit. (or a junction box if it's hard wired)

That way if the PD fails you can just re-connect the WFCO

Other method (not as good) Turn off breaker and tape or otherwise "lock" it off (They make a breaker lock device you can get)

But I like the idea of unhooking the wire that way the WFCO is not accidently engaged.


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Posted: 05/08/21 10:20am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

OK 4' of 6ga wire, or 8ga with a little more voltage drop to the battery.

Plan on 8A AC draw and if an existing circuit can supply 8A then use it, otherwise install a new circuit and CB. I would not cut the AC cord for possible warranty considerations. Instead install a junction box or use a extension cord and cut it's male plug off.

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