Good Sam Club Open Roads Forum: Diesel Engine Owners- I've a DUSTED engine, so cummins says
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 > Diesel Engine Owners- I've a DUSTED engine, so cummins says

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teeznu

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Posted: 05/09/21 07:35pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

This will be somewhat of a lengthy post. What I'm looking for is a very short response. "RUN and or GET A SECOND OPINION"

In Nov of 2020 a code popped up "Too much crank case pressure" on an ISL 400-8.9L engine. Tech responded "Need to change the crank case filter". Told tech I just replaced it less than 1000 miles earlier. "Oh, he responded. We'll have to dig deeper". Did a "Blow Down Test" Found air was passing up thru the valve guides in the head. Replaced some valve guides and rocker arms. Reassembled-test drove-got same code again. (warranty company did pay for this service)
Next-removed head and dug into the block. (by the way, this is a rear engine radiator/Charge air cooler so those had to be dropped)
Found the number 5 cylinder with broken rings which was allowing too much pressure escaping. Did find the crank case filter saturated with oil. Did complete engine overhaul. New sleeves-pistons-rings-pistons arms-bearings etc. (Had an oil analysis performed by "Blackstone labs". Report was read by a 45 year diesel mechanic-He stated Engine is not dusted).Shop recommended a new head and turbo. I balked. Took head to a reputable machine shop. Didn't need resurfacing and no burnt valves etc. Did note some of the "seats" were not seating properly. Tech stated they "Cut seats and valves to correct".
Took turbo to a reputable turbo company in Lake Havasu AZ. Checked the operation of the unit and stated fan blades looked good and checked the internal operation. Did NOT check turbo thrust but stated in their opinion the turbo did not have any signs of being DUSTED.
Since the 3 1/2 month ordeal, we have driven 600 miles as of todays date. Now in Phoenix with an engine that overheated between Parker AZ and Vicksburg AZ. Limped in to Avondale AZ. Service center checked the CFM's of air passing thru the CAC/radiator and found inconsistencies in air measurement. Recommended cleaning radiator. (this was just previously done by the 1st service center as well as the Charge Air Cooler) Found an excessive debris and dirt. CFM's came up to specs. Did find the turbo had a loose hose and clamp causing a lose of turbo thrust. Did find the fan was not coming on to cool radiator. That is to be serviced.
Second service center inquired what the first service center did. Told them the above. Second service immediately stated the engine is DUSTED because the following was not replaced. Second service center is now recommending NEW charge air cooler-new turbo-new head-new air compressor and REBUILDING the ISL 400 8.9L diesel engine all over AGAIN. And we just have put 600 miles since the first service center performed the work.
YOUR THOUGHTS ARE MUCH APPRECIATED.

Traver8

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Posted: 05/09/21 07:43pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

With everything that you have already replaced or reworked - Yes, I would run and get another opinion. Are any of these shops Cummins service centers or just generic diesel shops? Suggest you find a good Cummins center and get their opinion.

ScottG

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Posted: 05/09/21 07:56pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Run. As is so often the case with diesels, that shop doesn't know how to diagnose so they claim they need to do everything. Find a better shop.

BTW, is is VERY obvious when an eng is dusted. Also, a leak in the boost lines of a turbo WILL NOT cause dirt ingestion. To the contrary, it pushes air outward.
I would just fix the fan and try again. I bet all is good then.

Cummins12V98

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Posted: 05/09/21 08:02pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Cummins certified shop.


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SDcampowneroperator

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Posted: 05/09/21 08:19pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

dusting causes loss of compression Has compression been tested?

lryrob9301

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Posted: 05/09/21 09:06pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Get the fan fixed and get out of there. Is the engine using oil? When diesels get dusted they use oil and or coolant. If it is not using any excessive amounts of either it's OK.


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3 tons

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Posted: 05/09/21 10:53pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I’m not a diesel mechanic but not sure what you mean by ‘dusting’....Dusting generally means that unfiltered air (say, due to a loose or broken intake hose connection) enters into the intake manifold and scores the cylinders...Cylinder scoring can usually be found via a leak down test whereby the sound of air hissing into the crankcase is heard or crankcase pressure begins to rise (at oil fill cap)....Air heard hissing into the intake indicates a bad intake valve, while air heard hissing at the tail pipe indicates a bad exhaust valve.... Bubbles in the radiator indicate a bad head gasket...I would say that before replacing parts more diagnostics are needed...JMHO, I wish you well, sorry for your difficulties ...

3 tons

wolfe10

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Posted: 05/10/21 05:49am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

3 tons wrote:

Dusting generally means that unfiltered air (say, due to a loose or broken intake hose connection) enters into the intake manifold and scores the cylinders...

3 tons


Yup,that is what dusting is. Another cause is an old air filter element with torn pleats, deterioration from water intrusion, someone trying to clean the filter by banging it, etc.


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Jarlaxle

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Posted: 05/10/21 08:08am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ScottG wrote:

Run. As is so often the case with diesels, that shop doesn't know how to diagnose so they claim they need to do everything. Find a better shop.

BTW, is is VERY obvious when an eng is dusted. Also, a leak in the boost lines of a turbo WILL NOT cause dirt ingestion. To the contrary, it pushes air outward.
I would just fix the fan and try again. I bet all is good then.


This...though I will note a boost leak CAN cause damage from excessive EGTs.


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DancinCampers

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Posted: 05/10/21 02:19pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I feel your pain. Trying to get an honest and correct evaluation is very diffult.

In summer 2015 while in CO, I began getting check engine code, crankcase over pressure. Only happened going downhill. Freightliner said change the crankcase filter. Drove back to New Orleans, no issues. Replaced filter Jan 2016. Drove to Mexico Feb 2017, CA and back to New Orleans, no issues.
In summer 2018 drove to SC for service at FOCC service center, began getting codes again. After service they said to go to Cummins in Spartanberg.
This is where it gets interesting. They spent a day with the engine and said they THOUGHT it was due to broken rings. They would remove/inspect/replace engine for $9K. If nothing was found to be broken extended warranty would not cover cost. My engine was not rebuildabe. New engine was $18k, 30 days to build.
We were on our way to KY to start work at Amazon. We drove to KY and sat till I was done working Dec 19. Drove back to New Orleans. As long as I kept RPMs below 2100 no problems.
Took coach in to NO Cummins, they sent me a pic of the turbo and said it was dusted. Of course warranty would not cover. They did not have the facilities to drop engine, so referred me to S&H Auto/Truck service in Hammond, LA.
Gave it to them and said fix, either I was going to pay or estended warranty was going to pay. Either way it had to be fixed.
Bottom line, all top rings were broken. New engine not available. They got a long block from Jasper. New injectors, injector pump and turbo, all else transferred from my engine.

Total cost $37+K, I paid $3.5K. My extended warrany expired in Mar 2019. Was a hard road, but they paid.

Good luck.


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