First Long Road Trip

[Lusson]

Well I'm a first time camper owner and seeing if there is anything I'm missing to be ready for our long trips this summer.

I have a 36' long Travel Trailer finally I believe got my Hitch setup right after taking it to the scale last week. I may do some more checks after the items below.

Installing a second Curt Sway Bar
Getting Load Range E Tires put on my SUV
Got things weighed and got my hitch weight at 950lbs on a 7700lb trailer. With everything loaded in my SUV.
Front and Rear Tires are same spacing as unloaded with Dist. Hitch System.

Only thing curious is the tires and second sway bar will increase travel comfort. On my Dist. hitch I had it on the 3rd link and here is the info I had from the scale.
No Trailer Axle Weights
Front 3340lbs with 36" Spacing
Rear 3480lbs with 36" spacing

Axle Weights On Link 3
Front 3220lbs with 36" spacing
Rear 4540lbs with 33" Spacing
20% Tounge weight

Axle Weights On Link 4
Front 3340lbs with 36" spacing
Rear 4360lbs with 34 3/4" spacing
15% Tounge weight

I'm going to see if I go up to link 5 if that does anything and weight it again but thinking link 4 is the one to go with. But noticed if I got above 65mph on link 3 it got a little light so see how it goes on link 4 and even link 5 for driving comfort.

[Lusson]

Well the results are in on the weigh in at the CAT Scales I would say I'm a little shocked it didn't move very much so thinking Link #4 is the best?

Bare SUV
Front Axle 3340lbs with 36" Wheel Well
Rear Axle 3480 with 36" Wheel Well
Trailer is 7680lbs empty

Link #3
Front Axle 3220lbs with 38" WW
Rear Axle 4540lbs with 32" WW
Trailer 7680lbs

Link #4
Front Axle 3320lbs with 36" WW
Rear Axle 4400lbs with 35" WW
Trailer 7700lbs

Link #5
Front Axle 3360lbs with 36" WW
Rear Axle 4300lbs with 35" WW
Trailer 7740lbs

[Lusson]

Thanks for all the advise my next experiment is to go to 5 links and see what she weighs at the scale. Plus got the LOAD Range E tires and see how that runs as well. I also know that I'm most likely not tightening down the sway bars enough. I know not to crank them down but a buddy suggested when getting on the interstate give them a little extra turn. Then just simply ease off when you get off the interstate.

But took it off on a drive and around 60mph it seemed fine and will see what going up to 5 links does on the front and rear axle weights and go from there.

We have our first trip set for next week and its only an hour drive but again good first test on the interstate with all the adjustments. Will give feedback on the weights when I get it done.

[Grit_dog]

Boomerweps wrote:

Grit do wrote:
Fortunately, you're mistaken. But in the "steering balance equation", whatever that is, how much difference does a couple hundred lbs above or below the unloaded FA weight make?

Odd turn of phrase. I seek enlightenment. I like strong opinions, I just like the data backing them up. Only have/had one WDH for a couple years but I’ve worked it every which way but loose, between post delivery on old TV, new TV, lifted “flipped” axle, measuring every corner each time on the TVs & TT.

Not meant to be cynical.
But consider.
Add trailer. Adds weight to RA, fulcrum effect removes weight from FA.
Add wdh, wdh opposes the downward force of the hitch and removes some of the tongue weight transferring it to the FA and trailer axles.
Weight comment was centered around splitting hairs about a couple hundred lbs on a 3000-4000lb load. Can’t say I’ve ever noticed a difference with a small weight reduction on FA due to trailer.

[Grit_dog]

mr_andyj wrote:
Difference on a 1/2 ton to a 3/4 ton truck (suv)=
usually is the same frame with a few extra pieces welded to the frame to make it stronger, usually turning what is called the C-channel frame shape and closing it into a tube in key areas,
and
heavier rear axle and differential.
and
either extra leaf spring or just a bigger set of leaf springs
or
if rear coil springs, then a heavier set of springs to take more weight.

other things include bigger brake rotors/calipers and other upgrades that will not affect towing a trailer forward so I will not mention as these are not the discussion.

Sounds like you did your homework and are within the limits of the vehicle. You might find that 60 mph is almost as fast as you want to tow, for safety and for mpg's. Leave 5 mins early if you are in a hurry, right?

Think of the WD hitch setup as a triangle that includes Tv front axle, the ball hitch and the trailer axle ( not need to include other axles here).
The bottom left corner is the TV front axle, the bottom right is the trailer axle (s) and the top corner is the ball.
With no WDH there is a connection from bottom right to top, and bottom left to top, but nothing from the bottom corner to bottom corner.
With WDH the bottom corners are also attached.
Stay with me...
If you pull the bottom corners together then the forces tend to pull those "legs" towards each other and push the top corner (the ball) up.
IF those legs have extra axles on them, like the rear axle on a TV, then those axles would eventually come off the ground, but in this case they are just unweighted a little.
This is a good way to visualize what the WDH does.

Wholly incorrect on the frame/ chassis thing. At least for most vehicles in the last 30 years or so as most are already fully boxed rear frame sections. Yes most components are heavier, but generally the frame is totally different. Some share the same bodywork/ dimensions, other have a completely different body as well.

[Boomerweps]

Grit do wrote:
Fortunately, you're mistaken. But in the "steering balance equation", whatever that is, how much difference does a couple hundred lbs above or below the unloaded FA weight make?

Odd turn of phrase. I seek enlightenment. I like strong opinions, I just like the data backing them up. Only have/had one WDH for a couple years but I’ve worked it every which way but loose, between post delivery on old TV, new TV, lifted “flipped” axle, measuring every corner each time on the TVs & TT.

[mr_andyj]

Difference on a 1/2 ton to a 3/4 ton truck (suv)=
usually is the same frame with a few extra pieces welded to the frame to make it stronger, usually turning what is called the C-channel frame shape and closing it into a tube in key areas,
and
heavier rear axle and differential.
and
either extra leaf spring or just a bigger set of leaf springs
or
if rear coil springs, then a heavier set of springs to take more weight.

other things include bigger brake rotors/calipers and other upgrades that will not affect towing a trailer forward so I will not mention as these are not the discussion.

Sounds like you did your homework and are within the limits of the vehicle. You might find that 60 mph is almost as fast as you want to tow, for safety and for mpg's. Leave 5 mins early if you are in a hurry, right?

Think of the WD hitch setup as a triangle that includes Tv front axle, the ball hitch and the trailer axle ( not need to include other axles here).
The bottom left corner is the TV front axle, the bottom right is the trailer axle (s) and the top corner is the ball.
With no WDH there is a connection from bottom right to top, and bottom left to top, but nothing from the bottom corner to bottom corner.
With WDH the bottom corners are also attached.
Stay with me...
If you pull the bottom corners together then the forces tend to pull those "legs" towards each other and push the top corner (the ball) up.
IF those legs have extra axles on them, like the rear axle on a TV, then those axles would eventually come off the ground, but in this case they are just unweighted a little.
This is a good way to visualize what the WDH does.

[Grit_dog]

Boomerweps wrote:


I look at a a WDH to be like a handle that pushes down on the whole TV on all four wheels. I think returning the front weight is great but not enough. Because the extra rear weight pushing the TV down in the rear unloads the front relative to the rear. So pushing a couple hundred pounds to the front wheels works better for me in the steering balance equation.
Shorter answer: I’d try five links before settling down.

Fortunately, you're mistaken. But in the "steering balance equation", whatever that is, how much difference does a couple hundred lbs above or below the unloaded FA weight make?

[LanceRKeys]

I’d just bring the tools to adjust your WDH with you and adjust on the side of the road. You can have your weights “perfect” and the trailer is all over the place, you can also have your weights way off and it pull just fine. If your driving and it doesn’t feel right, put an extra link on, or tighten your sway control a bit.

[Boomerweps]

Lusson wrote:
Ok I will try to make it more clear here.

Nothing on the Expedition
Front Axle 3340lbs with 36" Wheel Well Spacing
Rear Axle 3480 with 36" Wheel Well Spacing

With WDH on Link #3
Front Axle 3220lbs with 36" Wheel Well Spacing
Rear Axle 4540lbs with 33" Wheel Well Spacing
Trailer Weight on Both Axles 7520lbs

With WDH on Link #4
Front Axle 3340lbs with 36" Wheel Well Spacing
Rear Axle 4380lbs with 34 3/4" Wheel Well Spacing
Trailer Weight on Both Axles 7740lbs

So thinking I have my front axle back to normal and not light which I thought I could feel when hit a bump with steering getting light. Also again putting on Load Range E tires to help with SUV sway and adding a extra sway bar with having such a long and heavy trailer.

Hope that clears items up and these were with everything loaded as going camping and people. GCVW for mine is 15,460 and figure my hitch weight is around 1000lbs. so that puts it right at 15%.

Again most camping is going to be 50 miles at most with one trip a year being about 1000 miles round trip. Handles good now until I get up around 65-70mph this was on WDH Link #3 and again its been 20mph winds each time so figure just keep her in the 60-65mph range when driving and sway should be gone with all other changes should see how things go for this weekend's short camping drive of 25 miles. First time driving on Link #4 with Tires and Extra Sway Bar.

I look at a a WDH to be like a handle that pushes down on the whole TV on all four wheels. I think returning the front weight is great but not enough. Because the extra rear weight pushing the TV down in the rear unloads the front relative to the rear. So pushing a couple hundred pounds to the front wheels works better for me in the steering balance equation.
Shorter answer: I’d try five links before settling down.

[APT]

If you to get to a scale again, can you get the weights without any WD spring bars? That will provide data to calculate actual TW.

Something seems off on the unhitched weights, unless that is with the whole family onboard and full of fuel.

My estimates are your TW is around 1150 pounds and TT weighs 8850 pounds loaded. I also believe you are exceeding the receiver, rear axle, and GVWR of the Expy.

For the first question: 4 links is as close as you should try to get as you have 100% font axle weight restored.

[packpe89]

Couple things, the XL is not a 3/4 ton, that implies same frame as an F-250. It's an F-150 frame with the towing package. You are certainly border line on weight, but length would be a bigger concern. That is allot of surface area. Fortunately you are taking a fairly flat trip and to a beautiful location. Just hope it's not windy. If planning to take many more of these trips, I would certainly consider F-250/2500 or if more seats are needed, even a 3/4 or 1 ton van.
Good Luck

[Grit_dog]

If I had a trailer that didn’t “handle right” at 60 or65 or 70 mph, I’d sell it, or drop it off in downtown seattle for the homeless to live In and report it stolen!

[Lusson]

Ok I will try to make it more clear here.

Nothing on the Expedition
Front Axle 3340lbs with 36" Wheel Well Spacing
Rear Axle 3480 with 36" Wheel Well Spacing

With WDH on Link #3
Front Axle 3220lbs with 36" Wheel Well Spacing
Rear Axle 4540lbs with 33" Wheel Well Spacing
Trailer Weight on Both Axles 7520lbs

With WDH on Link #4
Front Axle 3340lbs with 36" Wheel Well Spacing
Rear Axle 4380lbs with 34 3/4" Wheel Well Spacing
Trailer Weight on Both Axles 7740lbs

So thinking I have my front axle back to normal and not light which I thought I could feel when hit a bump with steering getting light. Also again putting on Load Range E tires to help with SUV sway and adding a extra sway bar with having such a long and heavy trailer.

Hope that clears items up and these were with everything loaded as going camping and people. GCVW for mine is 15,460 and figure my hitch weight is around 1000lbs. so that puts it right at 15%.

Again most camping is going to be 50 miles at most with one trip a year being about 1000 miles round trip. Handles good now until I get up around 65-70mph this was on WDH Link #3 and again its been 20mph winds each time so figure just keep her in the 60-65mph range when driving and sway should be gone with all other changes should see how things go for this weekend's short camping drive of 25 miles. First time driving on Link #4 with Tires and Extra Sway Bar.

[Lusson]

Per the sway bar manufacturer of multiple companies if you have a camper heavier than 6000lbs or longer than 26' they recommend a second one. Granted every time I've taken out my camper on the road its been 20mph or greater. figure with having a 36' camper a second one to help out is cheap $49 insurance. Yes one more thing to hook up and what not but yes sway is an issue but hoping with the change in my WDH and Tires and the second sway will just make it that much better to tow.

But every time right now if I go above 60mph it does get a little crazy but also my front end was light. Going on a short camping trip this weekend only 25 miles away. So see how she handles this next trip and will report the results on everything I changed from last time out.