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Grit dog

Black Diamond, WA

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Posted: 05/16/21 10:38am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

JIMNLIN wrote:

Its clear the F450 pickup has better capability in some areas.... except payload..


Please tell me you don’t believe this....
I thought your career was hauling stuff around on little trailers behind pickups, or
Maybe I’m thinking g about someone else.
Alright Kayteg, now you have someone who is confused to argue with....


2016 Ram 2500, MotorOps.ca EFIlive tuned, 5” turbo back, 6" lift on 37s
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Grit dog

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Posted: 05/16/21 11:00am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

cptqueeg wrote:

mattyj wrote:


I need something I can air down because we will be going to the beach with the camper on.



I've been researching around this topic (350/3500 vs 450/4500) and converting from DRW to SRW with a "super single" rear axle is a solution for some specific needs.

DRW to SRW

A single wider tire improves off road (airing down in sand) as well as driving in snow w/out losing the payload.

The 450/4500 and 550/5500 are readily available now in sensible builds vs the 350 GM's heavily laden w useless add on's to jack up the prices. I'm planning on a flatbed camper anyway.


550 SRW


If you were having anxiety about coming to grips with just buying a used camper, you better call your cardiologist before even looking at the cost of something like a buckstop conversion!

Regarding C&C trucks, why are you comparing apples to oranges? GM makes class 4 &5 C&C trucks too.

You’re correct that the attributes of these srw conversions are an improvement in some areas (well 1 area, off road). As well they look mean!
But they are wholly less practical than a stock ish dually, save for the one function they are better at.
Stepping up to a C&C truck only becomes necessary (because why else would you do it?) once you get over 3+ Tons of payload. And once you do that, there are other practical issues that must be solved or at least accommodated for.

That’s what makes the F450 pickups a sweet spot or good “tweener” vehicle. You get most of the benefits of a class4 truck with most of the benefits of a class 3 truck.

Grit dog

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Posted: 05/16/21 11:05am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

@cpteeq you are correct that it’s harder to find a used 1 ton that isn’t at least a mid level trim and crew cab. Even the extended cabs have gone mostly the way of the dinosaurs.
But there are MANY of them built every year, you just don’t see them in the personal use realm and therefor they don’t pop up for sale low miles and lightly used very often.
If you’re an outlier from what the mainstream public wants, then you can’t expect to have 31 flavors available if your flavors are different than the majority’s tastes.

cptqueeg

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Posted: 05/16/21 12:14pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Kayteg1 wrote:

I used 2006 C & C F350 for TC. Bought it originally with Utility bed, what with needed shimming gave me 13 -6" to top of my AC.
That wasn't comfortable at all.
I converted it eventually to standard bed, but the frame and wheel base was bigger than on standard truck, what cost me quite a bit of headaches.
My wife refused to ride in empty truck due to constant vibrations.
My F350 C&C had 10 leaves in the rear suspension what my earlier F450 did.
Choosing the truck is a compromise unfortunately.


NRALIFR wrote:

If you go the cab and chassis route, I would also offer this counterintuitive observation: don’t fall for the old “you can never have too much truck” saying. You actually can. Lightly loading a 19.5K GVWR truck is a good way to end up a Kelderman customer.

[emoticon][emoticon]


I'm 15 months in the journey, and count on the experience and knowledge base here to bounce my sometimes wacky ideas around. With my intended use, flatbed truck camper build, and need to tow, I'm right at max payload on a 350/3500 SRW. I don't want a border line truck loaded down w aftermarket parts so it just "gets by."

19.5" tires are not ideal for my uses and they seem to be almost required on a SRW to maximize the payload, leading me to explore a DRW conversion to a "super single" rear axle on either 350/3500 or 450/4500. This would be a truck dedicated to the TC so the unladen ride isn't critical. I tend to travel "heavy" w lots of tools, recovery equipment, and sporting goods, and have aspirations of month long trips to Baja.

Avid Fox

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Posted: 05/16/21 12:45pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

mattyj wrote:


I need something I can air down because we will be going to the beach with the camper on.



Then it's a 350 or a crazy expensive super single setup. With an 1150 arctic fox on my 16 f350 cc drw diesel, I found I NEEDED suspension upgrades to drive well. You CAN drive it without, as many might do, but it feels tail heavy and steers very badly.

It's a crummy toss up between the bigger 550 truck or being able to air down when needed. I'd love to have a new 550 with 19.5 x 285 duals that could fit between the front jacks and also go down to 20psi when needed, but that isn't an option avail.

Beach or desert sand with a heavy truck camper is an interesting experience... Airing down is huge and like magic, you just float over the top. Not airing down is just waiting to be stuck as soon as you get off the gas or turn too tight. Ugh.

* This post was edited 05/16/21 01:13pm by Avid Fox *

Kayteg1

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Posted: 05/16/21 01:16pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Again, you need to compare particular truck as generic conclusion will not get you far.
I can't imagine any TC on the market can put more than 6800 lb on rear axle like my camper did (with some rocks collection and beer help).
The 2017 F350 dually handles it perfectly and I had no problem to shoot 80 mph when I needed.
Actually with normal, slightly lower load the rear was still higher than front and I have to put 2x planks under front wheels to level.
I also tow light boat with it, so the only reason I could see for F450 would be 7000 lb trailer.





cptqueeg

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Posted: 05/16/21 01:26pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Kayteg1 wrote:

Again, you need to compare particular truck as generic conclusion will not get you far.
I can't imagine any TC on the market can put more than 6800 lb on rear axle like my camper did (with some rocks collection and beer help).
The 2017 F350 dually handles it perfectly and I had no problem to shoot 80 mph when I needed.
Actually with normal, slightly lower load the rear was still higher than front and I have to put 2x planks under front wheels to level.
I also tow light boat with it, so the only reason I could see for F450 would be 7000 lb trailer.


The reason the 450/4500+ even came up is the lack 350/3500 availability on the market right now. There are a few GM 3500s available, but they are pushing into the $80,000 range. You can't even order a moderately priced one because electronic components are going into the highest priced trucks. They're putting lots of useless options on right now to escalate the MSRP.

cptqueeg

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Posted: 05/16/21 01:37pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Avid Fox wrote:

mattyj wrote:


I need something I can air down because we will be going to the beach with the camper on.



Then it's a 350 or a crazy expensive super single setup. With an 1150 arctic fox on my 16 f350 cc drw diesel, I found I NEEDED suspension upgrades to drive well. You CAN drive it without, as many might do, but it feels tail heavy and steers very badly.

It's a crummy toss up between the bigger 550 truck or being able to air down when needed. I'd love to have a new 550 with 19.5 x 285 duals that could fit between the front jacks and also go down to 20psi when needed, but that isn't an option avail.

Beach or desert sand with a heavy truck camper is an interesting experience... Airing down is huge and like magic, you just float over the top. Not airing down is just waiting to be stuck as soon as you get off the gas or turn too tight. Ugh.



Removing the TC - another thing to consider.

How about these tires? Michelin X Force ZL 335/80r20

Avid Fox

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Posted: 05/16/21 02:15pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

"Removing the TC - another thing to consider.

How about these tires? Michelin X Force ZL 335/80r20"


Well, that's what I mentioned also. Wider than 17x265s on a dually won't fit between the front jacks without mods to widen the brackets. Maybe that's the easy solution for wider duals... Widen the brackets.

Those Michelin mog tires are too big and too loud for human use on the road. Big military tires often have severe speed restrictions too. I often travel at 75 mph on the open road.

Avid Fox

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Posted: 05/16/21 02:24pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

mattyj wrote:

We are going to be getting a new TC and fairly new Truck probably in the coming year, I plan on retiring on 12/31/21. (If I make it) My wife loves the Adventurer 901 DB with a full wall slide,California King mattress and the U shape dinette and me too. I know it’s a heavy camper and it needs a DRW , my question is can a Ford F3 50 dual rear wheel handle any Truck Camper out there? Or are there certain campers that need even more then a F3 50 DWR can handle?


Back to the original question, YES, a 350 will handle it, and it will even ride ok if you add a leaf or three to the rear, and add lower stable loads, etc. And load your rig carefully, and watch your water weight distribution in the tanks. Or, like many folks, you may not be sensitive to any of it, and it'll be fine anyway.

My f350 handles that weight and I'm mostly satisfied with it, but in truth, I'd rather have an f550.

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