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curt12914

Bombay NY (5 miles from Quebec, 15 from Ontario)

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Posted: 05/24/21 01:42pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ferndaleflyer wrote:

I have maintained my primary address in another state for over 20 years without any problems. Pay income taxes, vote, drivers license, vehicle registration, etc. yet I haven't lived there. I own homes in 2 other states + my DP which might be anywhere. Don't make it complicated as it don't have to be.


You can do anything you want until you get caught, but that does not make it legal. If you have never been through an audit, you might tend to think differently about making sure you are legal.


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toedtoes

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Posted: 05/24/21 02:56pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

valhalla360 wrote:


If you move away from NY, California, Illinois on the other hand, they have substantial income taxes and if you leave, they lose that money. If you are really spending 8-10month each year in NY and you have NY drivers license and NY doctors, there is a good chance, NY comes back and challenges your assertion that you have changed your domicile because they want their proverbial "pound of flesh" come tax time.


If you are spending 8-10 months per year in New York, using New York resources, roads, etc., then are they really trying to get their "pound of flesh" or are you really domiciled in New York...

I agree with everything else you said, but using "8-10 months each year" rather than say "1 month per year" as the time frame doesn't make New York out to be a greedy state - you are being expected to pay for the resources you are utilizing for the majority of the year.


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valhalla360

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Posted: 05/25/21 06:28am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

toedtoes wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:


If you move away from NY, California, Illinois on the other hand, they have substantial income taxes and if you leave, they lose that money. If you are really spending 8-10month each year in NY and you have NY drivers license and NY doctors, there is a good chance, NY comes back and challenges your assertion that you have changed your domicile because they want their proverbial "pound of flesh" come tax time.


If you are spending 8-10 months per year in New York, using New York resources, roads, etc., then are they really trying to get their "pound of flesh" or are you really domiciled in New York...

I agree with everything else you said, but using "8-10 months each year" rather than say "1 month per year" as the time frame doesn't make New York out to be a greedy state - you are being expected to pay for the resources you are utilizing for the majority of the year.


I agree. If you really spend most of your time in your original state, you are just trying to scam the system. The state may be greedy in their general tax structure but not as it relates to challenging your domicile.

1 month is a poor example as you can still visit your old state while moving your domicile. 8-10 months in the example makes it clear cut that you are really domiciling in your original state.


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ferndaleflyer

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Posted: 05/25/21 07:30am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Curt since I own more than one home in different states but spend most of my time on the road which house would you suggest I use as my primary residence? As I said vehicles are all registered there, drivers license, vote, pay property taxes, pay income tax, etc. I just don't live there. What would you suggest?

curt12914

Bombay NY (5 miles from Quebec, 15 from Ontario)

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Posted: 05/25/21 10:41am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ferndaleflyer wrote:

Curt since I own more than one home in different states but spend most of my time on the road which house would you suggest I use as my primary residence? As I said vehicles are all registered there, drivers license, vote, pay property taxes, pay income tax, etc. I just don't live there. What would you suggest?


If you do all those things, that is your legal domicile.

A lot of people change their legal domicile to states having low, or no, state income tax. By saying not to complicate things in your prior post, I (and I am betting others, too) felt you were saying to just claim whatever state benefits you.

There are certain things that trigger an income tax audit. Going from years of paying income tax to a state and then paying nothing, would certainly be a factor in determining who is audited.

There are legalities in being considered a legal resident. If you don't meet those legal requirements and have paid no income tax, an audit with the tax due, plus penalties and interest can be very expensive.

toedtoes

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Posted: 05/25/21 03:14pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

valhalla360 wrote:



I agree. If you really spend most of your time in your original state, you are just trying to scam the system. The state may be greedy in their general tax structure but not as it relates to challenging your domicile.

1 month is a poor example as you can still visit your old state while moving your domicile. 8-10 months in the example makes it clear cut that you are really domiciling in your original state.


I was using the "1 month" to show how different the statement is when you lessen the time stated. Spending 1 month in New York versus 8-10 months is more like a vacation. It's pretty obvious you aren't living there, so if the state tries to challenge your domicile, they can be considered being greedy. Everything inbetween becomes more subjective and will depend on many other factors (vehicle registrations, licensing, work, medical care, and so on).

valhalla360

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Posted: 05/25/21 03:24pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ferndaleflyer wrote:

Curt since I own more than one home in different states but spend most of my time on the road which house would you suggest I use as my primary residence? As I said vehicles are all registered there, drivers license, vote, pay property taxes, pay income tax, etc. I just don't live there. What would you suggest?


How much time do you spend in each home and how does that look over time? Just owning a house and paying property tax on it doesn't in itself establish domicile. It's one factor but with multiple houses, it's not an overwhelming factor.

Again, it's about establishing a pattern consistent with domiciling in that state. Owning a home is one factor but if you only spend a couple weeks a year in that state and several months in the old state, you could get challenged on it. If you spend little time in the new state and significant time in other states...it's a gray area.

Changing your license and voter registration and paying income tax in the new state are also factors supporting your claim to domicile.

Of course, if you change your domicile with poor supporting evidence and get away with it for years, it's increasingly unlikely that the old state will come back and challenge you on the issue.

Full timers can have issues in the first few years because it's not clear cut. Generally if there are no red flags, the old state never questions it but as mentioned, for the high income tax states, they are more likely to question it if they find inconsistencies because there is a big financial incentive to do so.

valhalla360

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Posted: 05/25/21 03:30pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

toedtoes wrote:

I was using the "1 month" to show how different the statement is when you lessen the time stated. Spending 1 month in New York versus 8-10 months is more like a vacation. It's pretty obvious you aren't living there, so if the state tries to challenge your domicile, they can be considered being greedy. Everything inbetween becomes more subjective and will depend on many other factors (vehicle registrations, licensing, work, medical care, and so on).


Definitely a sliding scale and other items factor in if you spend a moderate amount of time in your old state.

1 month is unlikely to trigger but it can still be subjective if you say only spent 1 month in your new state while traveling the country. NY has the prior historical claim and you haven't shown a clear intent to live in your new state...It really becomes a question for the lawyers to sort out and other criteria can push the answer one way or the other.

doxiemom11

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Posted: 05/27/21 09:24am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

What we did was sign up for the mail forwarding service and changed our address on everything so it started going there. A couple months later we actually went to the state, got the vehicle titles transferred and registered, got our drivers license, changed our insurances to that state, set up banking, registered to vote. It then became our legal domicile/residence and we were given at street address to use at that time for things that require a street address. We did it in the middle of the year and filed our taxes as residents of out old state for part of the year and non-resident the rest of the year. Our new state does not have a state tax. The federal was filed using the new domicile address. The tax part officially documented our move from our old state to the new. We have since filed for our social security and medicare using that same address with no problems.

Ro"n"Joe

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Posted: 05/31/21 09:27am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

doxiemom11 wrote:

What we did was sign up for the mail forwarding service and changed our address on everything so it started going there. A couple months later we actually went to the state, got the vehicle titles transferred and registered, got our drivers license, changed our insurances to that state, set up banking, registered to vote. It then became our legal domicile/residence and we were given at street address to use at that time for things that require a street address. We did it in the middle of the year and filed our taxes as residents of out old state for part of the year and non-resident the rest of the year. Our new state does not have a state tax. The federal was filed using the new domicile address. The tax part officially documented our move from our old state to the new. We have since filed for our social security and medicare using that same address with no problems.


2X - good writeup. Need to set up your new domicile address 2-3 months ahead to show bank, credit card or bills showing the new address to the DMV and Tax office to prove that you "moved" to the new address. It's not difficult setting up a domicile.


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