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Grit dog

Black Diamond, WA

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Posted: 06/07/21 09:08am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Bionic Man wrote:

bikendan wrote:

My 2014 F150 SCREW 3.5 Ecoboost with Max Tow package has averaged 10-11mpg towing from Washington State to Arizona the entire 4 years I've owned it. I pull a 26ft 6500lb loaded TT.


I don’t get it. Towed the boat yesterday. Flat ground no wind, 70 MPH, hand calculated 10.99 MPG. Computer showed 11.8. My boat has way less drag than a TT.


Your Wakesetter tows more like a box trailer than you might think. And probably weighs about the same as the TT mentioned. +, TT guy didn't say ow fast he tows.

Idk why, as it would seem a bit more aero than a box trailer, but 11mpg is nothing to complain about.
FWIW, I get about the same, maybe 1mpg better, towing the boat as hauling a TC. And about the same mpg hauling TC with boat behind as just the TC.
I think the tower and all its accessories and the open interior has more wind resistance than it appears it would.

* This post was edited 06/07/21 10:31am by Grit dog *


2016 Ram 2500, MotorOps.ca EFIlive tuned, 5” turbo back, 6" lift on 37s
2017 Heartland Torque T29

Devo the dog

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Posted: 06/07/21 12:25pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

valhalla360 wrote:

Not so much an opinion but an explanation why you are unlikely to ever see supercharger come with a new truck.

Unlikely? LOL. It's been done.

I've owned them and raced them. Road racing and open road racing (F150 Lightning). FWIW, fastest street legal Lightning is owned by a buddy and has been raced often. Been in it myself at several road courses : Laguna Seca, Thunderhill, Buttonwillow, Las Vegas Motor Speedway (oval track and the road course), etc. It's a street legal, 182 mph lightning (confirmed) with 142 ft of roll cage. The only problem at 179+ mph on the open road is that the rear lifts off the ground so 182 mph was the limit due to lack of rear tire traction. Getting in and out is not exactly easy. I also tracked mine often when testing suspensions for one of the manufactures.
I've also known many in the racing world that have put superchargers on race cars. And, I've know others who put them on their street trucks and SUV's, although they raced off road with their purpose built race trucks.

Like I said, it's been done. And, if I bought a gas truck and want to boost it, I'll say it again: I'd put on a supercharger instead of a turbo. They work fine.

_____________________________
BTW, I still have a spare stock Ford Gen2 Lightning suspension (complete without shocks), along with other parts. If anyone wants to buy it, make an offer. I haven't thrown the stuff away only because I suspect that someday, someone will want it.

* This post was last edited 06/07/21 04:29pm by Devo the dog *   View edit history

Grit dog

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Posted: 06/07/21 02:27pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

^ I believe you found the proverbial needle in the haystack....
How many "other" trucks have besides the Lightning/Harley, which were limited runs of only what 4 years? Cool trucks, but do you have any supposition why they went away, same as the TRD blower upgrade?

noteven

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Posted: 06/07/21 03:24pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Was a supercharger available as a manufacturer approved dealer installed option on Toyota 5.7 engines?

Devo the dog

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Posted: 06/07/21 08:25pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Grit dog wrote:

^ I believe you found the proverbial needle in the haystack....
How many "other" trucks have besides the Lightning/Harley, which were limited runs of only what 4 years? Cool trucks, but do you have any supposition why they went away, same as the TRD blower upgrade?
SVT vehicles at that time were limited run production vehicles. It's just the way it is.

But, the supercharger technology is proven, which is why it's still used on many modern vehicles. The Ford GT sold at that time was supercharged. It was dry sump 4 valve engine but was still a just 5.4 block.

Doesn't matter though. I answered the question. A supercharger is form of forced induction and if I was going to install a turbo or supercharger, I'd install a supercharger. Am I stating that supercharging is better? No. Forced induction is forced induction although one uses wasted energy and he other uses energy. But, there's no lag on the supercharger, and it sounds better. In short, it's just my preference.

The 7.3 fords with superchargers are 1,000 hp engines although that power level is a bit crazy for daily driving. 600 hp is easy though. And, it's fun.
Turbos on typical street cars are boring. On the other hand, turbos on race prepped cars, or exotics are fun. A friend took me for a ride in his McLaren recently which has a twin turbo v6, and as expected, the performance was very close to a race car.

BackOfThePack

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Posted: 06/07/21 08:56pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

300-HP/400-HP under EFI with 6 or 8 speed tranny is about all any TT family vehicle TV “needs”. SOLO MILES have dominance over towing miles. ALWAYS.
That’s what drives vehicle spec.

We’d have killed for REAL numbers like that in the 1960s and 70s.
Dodge Magnum 440 was about 280-HP RWHL on Sunoco Super.

Trailer design & construction is the other part. Ignored.
But where the gains are greatest

GIGO applies to tow rigs as much as anything else.

How fast up the hill is for maroons. It’s the downslope that counts. (Trailer anti-lock disc.)

Never exceed 80% engine load. Test speed & rpm against oil temps inside that.
After careful scale weigh & tire pressure is perfected. Done. Predictability is the only thing.

But if you ALSO want FE, its time to start clean-sheet.
300-workdays per year AND FAMILY duty first drives vehicle spec (15k miles is average). 5k miles RVng is annual average. Not important spec. Secondary.

Do it right (vehicle operation) and vacation fuel can be almost free (against discarded bad habits at wheel).

My pickup pulls the same trailer as my grandad had with that Monaco hiding a Police Pursuit underneath. He averaged 10. I average 15. But each fillup only nets me a $10/tank savings. IOW, at ten years of vacation travel Im not $5k in fuel costs saved “ahead” with the higher MPG 280-RWHP turbodiesel About $400 annually. Does that pay for the upgrade?

Why, then, 400, 500 or 600-HP? Zero benefit. Just penalties.

Guys, I can run bobtail (13’5” clearance; what’s your pickup? 6’2”?) in my 20,400-lb Peterbilt (2X as heavy) with an engine 2X as big (12-Autoshift) at 14-MPG with no headwind. See up to 10-MPG with nearly 30K in the box. Average over 8-MPG, ALL miles governed at 65. Up to 79,500-lbs nationwide.

You really think Detroit gives a **** about your “economy” of long-distance travel as RV’ers? Because your climbing the grade faster than me has ZERO significance only penalties for driving too fast for conditions (you, not I are the least capable vehicle on the road).

But given how UNSTEADY is a combined rig RV I could kill RV’ers all day by doing nothing more than passing too closely on the downslope at a high rate of speed. (Includes you; skill won’t matter).

Given “some” knowledge of vehicle mechanics (physics) around here — though not really in evidence the 17-years I’ve posted here — ain’t it about time to pay attention where it belongs? ON THE LOUSY RV TRAILER brakes & suspension.

Hell, how many of you have even found WHICH wheel of EACH axle has the highest loading. And seriously tested what the trailer brakes can do (drums; time/distance to failure)? At 30-mph, how many feet to stop the combined rig WITH TT BRAKES ONLY. How is the braking load distributed among the wheels? WHY?

300-Hp? (Subject closed)
TV 4-whl disc brakes? (Subject closed)
Non-obsolete design WDH actually correct in function? (Subject closed)

Trailer suspension? (leaf spring unacceptable)
Trailer brakes? (drums unacceptable)

Having corrected all of these, what is the highest speed at which you can execute violent lane-change emergency maneuvers? From on-shoulder across two Interstate lanes to outer median and back, continually. (Why haven’t you tested?). From a given travel speed under ideal conditions, what is the MAXIMUM time/distance DOWN to that maneuver speed?

Give this HP **** a break. Hasn’t mattered in 20-years.


2004 555 CTD QC LB NV-5600
1990 35’ Silver Streak

FishOnOne

The Great State of Texas

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Posted: 06/07/21 09:08pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Devo the dog wrote:

Grit dog wrote:

^ I believe you found the proverbial needle in the haystack....
How many "other" trucks have besides the Lightning/Harley, which were limited runs of only what 4 years? Cool trucks, but do you have any supposition why they went away, same as the TRD blower upgrade?
SVT vehicles at that time were limited run production vehicles. It's just the way it is.

But, the supercharger technology is proven, which is why it's still used on many modern vehicles. The Ford GT sold at that time was supercharged. It was dry sump 4 valve engine but was still a just 5.4 block.

Doesn't matter though. I answered the question. A supercharger is form of forced induction and if I was going to install a turbo or supercharger, I'd install a supercharger. Am I stating that supercharging is better? No. Forced induction is forced induction although one uses wasted energy and he other uses energy. But, there's no lag on the supercharger, and it sounds better. In short, it's just my preference.

The 7.3 fords with superchargers are 1,000 hp engines although that power level is a bit crazy for daily driving. 600 hp is easy though. And, it's fun.
Turbos on typical street cars are boring. On the other hand, turbos on race prepped cars, or exotics are fun. A friend took me for a ride in his McLaren recently which has a twin turbo v6, and as expected, the performance was very close to a race car.


Some comments...
The 7.3 with a cam swap is a easy 600 HP engine. With a 3 liter whipple supercharger it's a ~1,400 HP engine.

Also let's not forget you can go to your Ram dealer and purchase a TRX with a supercharged engine today, and Ford will be releasing the Raptor R with a supercharged engine next year although these trucks are not designed with towing as a high priority.


'12 Ford Super Duty FX4 ELD CC 6.7 PSD 400HP 800ft/lbs
"200k Mile Club"
'16 Sprinter 319MKS "Wide Body"


Devo the dog

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Posted: 06/08/21 06:26am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

BackOfThePack wrote:


Give this HP **** a break. Hasn’t mattered in 20-years.

Maybe it doesn't matter to you. In my world, HP (and torque) is all that matters.

mich800

Pontiac, MI

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Posted: 06/08/21 10:34am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Grit dog wrote:

^ I believe you found the proverbial needle in the haystack....
How many "other" trucks have besides the Lightning/Harley, which were limited runs of only what 4 years? Cool trucks, but do you have any supposition why they went away, same as the TRD blower upgrade?


And I remember the towing spec on the Lighting. They were all limited to 5k lbs. So take that for what its worth with respect to the forced induction in that era.

Devo the dog

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Posted: 06/08/21 10:49am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

mich800 wrote:


And I remember the towing spec on the Lighting. They were all limited to 5k lbs. So take that for what its worth with respect to the forced induction in that era.

LOL. According to your logic, what the manufacture produces is all that it can do.

Therefore, the bed capacity spec on the GM syclone truck with a turbo was 500 lbs. Therefore bed capacity on trucks with turbos is limited. Same with the tow capacity/ LOL.

So take that for what it's worth. Limited thinking keeps you limited. But, it gives others comedy relief.

I'll say it again, if I bought a Ford with a 7.3 and had a choice to install forced induction, I'd install a supercharger.

The only reason why I didn't install one on my 2005 V10 is because it wasn't allowed in communist california. But, I knew a lot of racers outside of borders that installed them on their V10's and loved it. Why? More power and it was simple.

BTW, 5000 lbs towing capacity on a Lighting wasn't a bad thing. If you wanted to tow a boat, it worked fine. The only problem was traction at slick ramps.

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