cancel
Showing results forย 
Search instead forย 
Did you mean:ย 

80's 454 fuel supply challenges

brycedub
Explorer
Explorer
Long time first time.

I have an 86 The Executive with a newish crate 454 and 95 Chev TBI on top of it. On a recent trip, we had some intermittent stalling except when I'd step on the gas at which point it would rage forward until I let off the gas. Strangely, that issue went away if we turned on the generator, and later, after refueling, we didn't have to run the generator and it was fine and we traveled another 100 miles home without incident, including a multi-hour traffic jam in the Utah mountains.

More recently, we went on a trip and made great time on the interstate, even passing some Uhaulers on hills. We refueled and as we pulled out, the ol thing stalled completely. I was able to restart and work the accelerator to keep it running but it would only just idle and maybe give me 1/16th the power if I lightly touched the gas. We turned around, spent the night, and hoped it was just a cool down issue. The engine always runs from 220 to 280 degrees.

No luck with that, so we limped over to a small town garage and started down the usual checklist. We replaced all fuel filters, checked fuel pressure and checked the timing. No luck with anything. We went to a second place that had a big block specialist and swapped out the ignition controller, idle air controller and even rebuilt the TBI (which strangely didn't have its gaskets after a previous rebuild), but no luck. We concluded it must be the fuel pump, but there were none available for days. I changed the fuel pump the next day, and still, no power.

Strangely, the plastic protective shroud around the pump wires had melted in a few places between the engine and the pump...

We cut bait and got a shuttle back home, then I drove back to it the next day after remembering I didn't hear any noises coming from the fuel tank selector when the key was turned, which I had heard during some previous repairs. I disconnected the fuel supply and return and put them in separate gas cans - one full, the other empty - to see if it would work. Sure enough, it started right up and ran pretty well, so I replaced the selector, but it still didn't work, so i just bought five bucks worth of plumbing parts and bipassed the selector, which looks like it has low pressure, high volume helper pumps. It ran great for another 120 miles in the hot Utah heat.

But! When we arrived at our destination, it stalled a little when I restarted the engine to move to a second location. When I checked in there, it sat for about 5-10 minutes. I hopped back in to restart it, and there was obviously no fuel getting to the engine. I coasted to our spot with the two pumps of brakes I had. I then replaced the fuel relay and was able to start it up and get into our spot.

The end of the next day, I fired it up and started to head out of town, thinking the fuel relay had been the culprit the whole time, which would have explained why the switcher wasn't working and pump might have been heating up wires to the point of melting the shrouds (wires were still in good shape). BUT! We got just a couple miles out of town when it started to slow down and lose power. NOT AGAIN! I almost changed the fuel pump back to the original, but thought the new relay might have been trying to send power to the tank selector, so I disconnected it, fired it up, and it seemed things were great.

UNTIL! We refueled again. I put premium in thinking it would help use maybe a bit less gas thus less strain on the pump. But, when I tried starting it again, it wouldn't start, and made some new weird noises like the starter wasn't releasing after I released the key. After a couple minutes, it would start and had power, so we were on the road again. All was well.

But it wasn't, we started losing power again, but it was like it was before, with maybe a high idle and no real power unless I floored it. We made it another 180 miles like that and got home. Strangely, it never went above 220 degrees that whole stretch, which included some steep mountains between Helper and Spanish Fork.

It stalled at a stop sign 200 yards from our house after idling downhill a couple blocks, but I restarted it and it seemed the power issue had fully reset, it didn't stall, sputter or fight back. But it was a very short distance.

My theory is the fuel relay was indeed bad, that the pump is struggling and drawing too much juice trying to feed the big engine and that power hasn't been getting back to the switcher for a while. But it's odd things work sometimes and not others.

WHAT IS HAPPENING???? HELP! Thanks
22 REPLIES 22

udidwht
Explorer
Explorer
For TBI troubleshooting...

https://harristuning.com/Tbi/troubleshooting/

94-95 TBI years were 26-32psi fuel pressure. You also need to be sure you're running the correct flow rated injectors for your year engine. Only use AC Delco parts. Do not cheap out.

Even a bad TPS can cause the issue you're having.

You mention 220 - 280 temps?

The dash gauge even have 280? Or is it 260? It is normal behavior to see these era RVs go as high as ~240 on long grade pulls. What is important is to be certain you hear the clutch fan kicking in. That is what prevents the temp from boiling over. A normal operating range on the flats is generally 205 - 217 or so. Your dash gauge will rarely reflect that accurately. Usually read higher by as much as 10-2X degrees depending on ambient temp.

Water also cools better than coolant so get the ratio at min 50/50 (distilled water). Pre-mix is already mixed with distilled water. With 454s I like 60 percent water vs 40 percent coolant.

Those year coaches run with a 195 T-stat. Do not use one less than that. It will throw off the PCM. I'd also pull the distributor and replace the pick-up coil and visually inspect the stator ring. The ring is known to crack messing with timing.
1994 Fleetwood Southwind Storm
P-30 chassis 7.4L 454 TBI 58,301 miles and counting....(as of 06/08/19)
VIN# 1GBJP37N4R3314754
Flight System Generator man 360 (PM me)

2_many_2
Explorer III
Explorer III
Any Up-Dates?

Jarlaxle
Explorer II
Explorer II
Probably not, with EFI.
John and Elizabeth (Liz), with Briza the size XL tabby
St. Bernard Marm, cats Vierna and Maya...RIP. ๐Ÿ˜ž
Current rig:
1992 International Genesis school bus conversion

TxGearhead
Explorer
Explorer
Any chance you could be boiling/vapor locking fuel? I remember hearing that the 454 got so hot "under hood" it would burn out exhaust manifolds.
2018 Ram 3500 CC LB DRW 4X4 Cummins Aisin Laramie Pearl White
2018 Landmark Oshkosh
2008 Bigfoot 25C9.4
2014 NauticStar 21 ShallowBay 150HP Yamaha
2016 GoDevil 18X44 35HP Surface Drive

Jarlaxle
Explorer II
Explorer II
Before you do anything else: check your grounds! Make sure the engine, fuel tanks, and ECM have good grounds. IIRC, you should have a BIG ground strap from the back of one cylinder head to the framerail. If this is missing or corroded, it can make for all sorts of weird problems.
John and Elizabeth (Liz), with Briza the size XL tabby
St. Bernard Marm, cats Vierna and Maya...RIP. ๐Ÿ˜ž
Current rig:
1992 International Genesis school bus conversion

2_many_2
Explorer III
Explorer III
You are getting lots of excellent feedback from knowledgeable people here.

All my best, that you find your solution, I know how frustrating it can be. Especially when a thousand miles from home.

As mentioned before, if you find a solution, please share that with with us to help others.

I would bet money on electrical, but there are so many other possibilities it could be anything.

Take care............

dodge_guy
Explorer
Explorer
I would look into the injectors. I had a 90 Dodge comb van with the throttle body injection. It had an injector starting to go bad intermittently. It would lose power and run rough. It was only one injector, but I replaced both and it fixed the issue.
Double check all your electrical connections including powers and grounds. Then check out the injectors.
Wife Kim
Son Brandon 17yrs
Daughter Marissa 16yrs
Dog Bailey

12 Forest River Georgetown 350TS Hellwig sway bars, BlueOx TrueCenter stabilizer

13 Ford Explorer Roadmaster Stowmaster 5000, VIP Tow>
A bad day camping is
better than a good day at work!

Rick_Jay
Explorer II
Explorer II
brycedub,

I just wanted to say that IS a beautiful looking motorhome. I hope you are quickly able to discover the problem. The mountain in the background is a nice touch, too! ๐Ÿ˜‰

By the way, welcome to being an active poster here on the Forums. ๐Ÿ™‚
Please remember to post your solution once you finally figure this all out. It's always nice to hear the conclusion of the story, plus it can be helpful for those who have similar problems in the future.

Good Luck to you!

~Rick
2005 Georgie Boy Cruise Master 3625 DS on a Workhorse W-22
Rick, Gail, 1 girl (27-Angel since 2008), 1 girl (22), 2 boys (23 & 20).
2001 Honda Odyssey, Demco Aluminator tow bar & tow plate, SMI Silent Partner brake controller.

brycedub
Explorer
Explorer
Mike W wrote:
I hope you get to a solution. But it almost sounds like you have my old RV. Should be a pic in my profile.


Finally got a photo uploaded to my profile. She's a beaut!

Mike_W
Explorer
Explorer
I hope you get to a solution. But it almost sounds like you have my old RV. Should be a pic in my profile.
1987 Executive Diplomat 35
Sad Days
Sold my baby
๐Ÿ˜ž

TUBE_PULLER
Explorer
Explorer
brycedub wrote:
I did run a quick test of the pump connected directly to the battery at one point before realizing the issue with the switcher, and even bought a switch for just such a scenario. Will try that again with it all hooked up.

Thanks enblethen for the new circuit tip. It still switches the gas gauges, but the power for the high flow, low pressure pump and the switcher are toast. Wonder if the relays back there are bad. Will have to put the ol' multimeter on it.


Reading this got me to thinking, before bypassing everything as I suggested. You may want to bypass the "Switcher" by connecting the fuel lines together with a splice and hose clamps. That would eliminate another possible problem. If you change multiple things at the same time, you can not know what fixed the problem.

PS, "Switcher" I am assuming you are referring to the electric solenoid that switches from one gas tank to the other.

TUBE_PULLER
Explorer
Explorer
wa8yxm wrote:
Often connections on old rigs get a bit tarnished. I've seen it on one car (Wish I'd known it then) but unplug. Spray with De-Oxit. plug/unplug a few tines. Spray with the 2nd De-Ox-It. and they are good as new...

Try unplug replug a few times first though as that will clean 'em De-ox-it slows the re-dirtying


Caig De-Oxit has saved me many times, good stuff.

wa8yxm
Explorer III
Explorer III
Often connections on old rigs get a bit tarnished. I've seen it on one car (Wish I'd known it then) but unplug. Spray with De-Oxit. plug/unplug a few tines. Spray with the 2nd De-Ox-It. and they are good as new...

Try unplug replug a few times first though as that will clean 'em De-ox-it slows the re-dirtying
Home was where I park it. but alas the.
2005 Damon Intruder 377 Alas declared a total loss
after a semi "nicked" it. Still have the radios
Kenwood TS-2000, ICOM ID-5100, ID-51A+2, ID-880 REF030C most times

TUBE_PULLER
Explorer
Explorer
I accidentally discovered I was getting low voltage to my fuel pump on the side of the road while broken down.
It was the tenth time my RV died after trying everything under the sun just like you, I crawled underneath and put a meter on the fuel pump power supply wire right at the pump.
I was only getting 8 volts, by the way, when a motor is supplied low voltage, it draws more amperage which in turn creates more heat.
The same way people burn out their air conditioners at an RV park with low voltage during hot periods when everyone is drawing off of the system with high loads.