Good Sam Club Open Roads Forum: Tech Issues: Westinghouse i4500 Generator
Open Roads Forum Already a member? Login here.   If not, Register Today!  |  Help

Newest  |  Active  |  Popular  |  RVing FAQ Forum Rules  |  Forum Posting Help and Support  |  Contact  

Search:   Advanced Search

Search only in Tech Issues

Open Roads Forum  >  Tech Issues

 > Westinghouse i4500 Generator

Reply to Topic  |  Subscribe  |  Print Topic  |  Post New Topic  | 
Page of 4  
Next
MNRon

Tennessee

Senior Member

Joined: 08/18/2007

View Profile



Good Sam RV Club Member

Offline
Posted: 07/17/21 05:52pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I posted a few weeks ago about trying to run my AC with a Yamaha 2k genny and Magnum 3000W boost inverter. Sort summary - the Yamaha just wasn’t strong enough with surges to work.

So now I’ve purchased a Westinghouse i4500 which we just picked up today in Salt Lake. It’s 100deg out so I expected I could run my AC, maybe both ACs with the boost inverter…no joy [emoticon]

Altitude here is 4200ft so I don’t expect the full 3.7kW static performance but still it should start and run an AC!??!!

By playing around with Magnum control settings I can nurse the genny (with Magnum boost support) to start one AC once in a while (Magnum VAC dropout=60v, AC input limit=20A; manually start AC fan on low early; etc). Still have to futz with it a dozen times or so to get success. When running the Westinghouse shows it’s providing 2.3k power (AC, fan, converter).

But even when I nurse it up on one AC it only ran an hour then kicked out, a half hour the second time. Just spent 10min getting things going again, hopefully longer this time but we’ll see. When it kicks out the boost inverter takes over and keeps the AC and fan running by drawing about 170A from my batteries. Not sure why genny kicks out as it doesn’t show overload, just reduces to 0power and the Magnum timer to kick it in starts dancing with the genny but it doesn’t ever come back in.

As I’m typing, the genny just kicked down to 1.3k power and my Magnum is supplying load support of 50A from batteries for a couple minutes; then genny went back up to 1.7k and is running the AC on it’s own again.

Anyone have a clue what’s going on, and why the Westinghouse can’t start and run an AC on it’s own?


Ron & Pat
2013 Silverado 3500 Duramax SRW
2019 VanLeigh Vilano 320 GK

bob213

Fresno, CA

Senior Member

Joined: 12/09/2007

View Profile



Good Sam RV Club Member

Offline
Posted: 07/17/21 06:33pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Don't have your answer but I would like to learn more. Can you explain why you have both genny and inverter going at the same time. I would think even at altitude that the 4500w genny would be all you need. How does the inverter know when to come online?
Thank you for any answers.


You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality – Ayn Rand


MNRon

Tennessee

Senior Member

Joined: 08/18/2007

View Profile



Good Sam RV Club Member

Offline
Posted: 07/17/21 07:28pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Bob213 - my Magnum inverter is feed from the shore umbilical and then feeds my whole RV through the panel. I tried starting with the inverter off, but no go there too. When the inverter is ‘off’ it passes through 60A per leg, but it still has the voltage integrity checks etc.

I’ve mess around some more and now am starting to think that I might have been too cute trying to limit the input current and have the boost take over. I’m thinking that it may be the input current limit was kicking in and not letting the genny do it’s job. And for some reason the boost function isn’t just additive to what’s coming in but instead might somehow be kicking out the source for another integrity check and then getting in a loop.

I’ve now upped the input limit to 27A (altitude based output of the genny) and it’s been running fine for quite a while. Given I’m getting cooling I’m done messing around tonight. Tomorrow I’ll try restarting with these settings, maybe even take input limit up to 33A (generator boost capability) or higher and let genny take itself out of the loop instead of Magnum dumping it out.

I’m hopeful that that will resolve my issue. Still don’t understand why Magnum boost doesn’t just add to incoming without forcing integrity check if that’s what it’s doing. I’ll mess around some more tomorrow and maybe call Magnum support on Monday.

Thanks for letting me think this through on-line…and for any suggestions still to come

Ron

Itinerant1

Itinerant

Senior Member

Joined: 05/23/2017

View Profile



Posted: 07/17/21 08:32pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

MNRon I have the Magnum hybrid 3000w inverter/ charger for over 5 years now using everyday (fulltime 99% boondocking). I can use either my eu2000i or eu2200i to run the Carrier Air V 15k air conditioner at elevation as high as 6,000' with outside air temps in the 90's range. I did add a micro-air 365 to the A/C unit which made all the difference, before the micro-air it was hit and miss. I set the "loadshare" to 16a when above 5,000' this keeps the Magnum from faulting, but with your larger generator you shouldn't have a problem getting one going.

I also run my A/C off just batteries/ solar assisting for a few hours at times. I'm using LiFePO4 batteries which helps.

Here are the setting I've used since day 1 on the Me-Arc50 for the Inverter.
Favorites (can be changed to personal taste)
F1_ Bat amps - PT  ADC (present be produced)
F2_ AC output - 121 VAC/ 60.0 HZ
F3_ AC input - Amps= 15a (adjustable with incoming power)
F4_ Load amps - 0 amps AC
F5_ AC Amps - -2 amps

CRTL
01_ AC in Control - Auto Connect
02_ CHG Control - Multi Stage
03_ Gen Control - Off
04_ PT Control
• a_ PT Chg CTRL 1 - Multi Stage
• b_ PT Aux Relay - Control= Disengage
• c_ PT Alarm - Control= Off
• d_ PT Mppt Ctrl - 15 min sweep

METER
Inverting_ DC (present time reading)

01 DC Meters
• a_ DC volts (present time reading)
• b_ DC amps (present time reading)
02 AC Meters
• a_ AC output (present time reading)
• b_ Load amps (present time reading)
• c_ Input AC (present time reading)
• d_ Inv/ Chg amps (present time reading)
• e_ Input AC1 (present time reading)

SET UP
01 System Set up
• a_ Set Clock
• b_ Screen set up (press select) _ Brightness (50%),  Contrast (100%),  Power save (1 min)
• c_ Temp select - Fahrenheit
• d_ Max charge- Amps 200 adc
• e _ Link PT Chg - setting - yes

02 Inverting/ Inverter set up
• a_ Search watts - Off
• b_ LBCO setting - 12.0 vdc
• c_ AC In time - 6:00am-6:00pm
• d_ AC In VDC - 11.O-14.1 vdc
• e_ AC In SOC - 80%-100% SOC
• f_ Power up - Always off

SET UP INVERTING
03 Charger Set up
• a_ AC Input - Amp= (can be set to available shore power/ generator incoming power)
• b_ VAC Drop out - 80 VAC
• c_ Battery type - Custom (with in here absorb voltage can be adjusted)
• d_ Absorb done - Time= 0.1 hrs (minimum, can't be turned off)
• e_ Max charge - Rate= 100%
• f_ Max charge - Time= 12.0 hrs
• g_ Final charge - Stage= Multi
• h_ EQ Reminder - Days= Off

04 AGS SET UP - No AGS Present
05 BMK SET UP - No BMK Present

06 PT SET UP (Magnum pt controller follows Magnum inverter settings)
• a_ Battery Type - Linked
• b_ Absorb Done - Linked
• c_ Maxed Charge - Rate= 100%
• d_ Max Charge - Time= 12.0 hrs
• e_ Bulk Start (press select)
- select Bulk Start, Daily / sun up= yes
- set Bulk Start, Volts= 12.0
- set Bulk Start, SOC= 80%
• f _ PT Aux Relay - 10.0 to 14.0
• g_ PT Alarm - 10.0 to 14.0
• h_ Power Save PT - Display= 15 min

TECH
01 Temperatures (press select_ scroll)
- Inv BTS (present time reading)
- Inv TFMER  (present time reading)
- Inv FET'S  (present time reading)
- AGS Sensor 0ff
- ACLD Temp 32f
- PT BTS  (present time reading)
- PT Inductor  (present time reading)

02 Versions (press select_ scroll)
- Inverter: 1.2
- Remote: 4.0
- AGS: 0.0
- Router: 0.0
- ACLD: 0.0
- PT: 1.1

03 Inv Model - MSH3012H (3000w hybrid)
04 Fault History
05 Set up pin
06 Ext Control - No ext control
07 Show all - Menus= No
08 Load Defaults

The following parameters are for programming the ME-ARC Version 4 advanced control.

Setup 02B LBCO Setting: Volts = 12.0
Setup 03C Battery Type: = Custom
Set Absorb Volts: = 14.1v or  14.2v (depending on season)
Set Float Volts: = 13.6
Set EQ Volts: = 14.1
Set EQ Done Time: = 0.1
Setup 03D Absorb Done Time: = 0.1 (minimum)
Setup 03E Max Charge Rate: = 100%
Setup 03G Final Charge Stage: = Float


12v 500ah (5,120Wh usable), 20 cells_ 4s5p (GBS LFMP battery system). 8 CTI 160 watt panels (1,280 watts)2s4p,Panels mounted flat. Magnum PT100 SCC, Magnum 3012 hybrid inverter, ME-ARC 50. Installed 4/2016 been on 24/7/365, daily 35-45% DOD 1,800+ cycles.

MNRon

Tennessee

Senior Member

Joined: 08/18/2007

View Profile



Good Sam RV Club Member

Offline
Posted: 07/17/21 08:53pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Itinerant1 - THANKS, I’ll compare with mine

Itinerant1

Itinerant

Senior Member

Joined: 05/23/2017

View Profile



Posted: 07/17/21 08:55pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I noticed you said that your VAC Drop out is set at 60 VAC, mine is 80.

MNRon

Tennessee

Senior Member

Joined: 08/18/2007

View Profile



Good Sam RV Club Member

Offline
Posted: 07/17/21 09:34pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Itinerant1 - I noticed that too. I did that to try and allow the genny to work through the surge at the advice of the Magnum tech a few weeks ago. I’ll play with it some tomorrow.

It sounds like yours behaves as I would expect, namely you can set input amps wherever you want and Magnum boost will seamlessly take over above that. For some reason my Magnum seems to be rejecting incoming power because it’s falling before it takes over.??

I’ll mess around tomorrow and hopefully comparing your setting will lead to a solution.

Thanks again !

Itinerant1

Itinerant

Senior Member

Joined: 05/23/2017

View Profile



Posted: 07/18/21 06:36am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

bob213 wrote:

Don't have your answer but I would like to learn more. Can you explain why you have both genny and inverter going at the same time. I would think even at altitude that the 4500w genny would be all you need. How does the inverter know when to come online?
Thank you for any answers.


The hybrid inverter/ charger gives options, you can turn the inverter off and just let shore power/ generator power pass through supplying the ac power.

It also allows to leave the inverter on and "load share", with this option you can set the incoming "amps" you want the generator (in this case) to supply and if it requires more power the batteries will assist. When I'm in an rv park I use load share set what ever the pedestal power is supplying this way if the rv park loses power the batteries pick immediately and I never know there is a power lose without seeing the loads being drown on the display. Or, if your moochdocking at a friends house and all they is 15a service you set incoming to 15a ac is supplied first and the balance is picked up by batteries if needed.

Example of displays from the Magnum & LFP batteries while under load at a lower SOC. On the Magnum remote it has the buttons to turn on/ off inverter and or charger.
[image]

Itinerant1

Itinerant

Senior Member

Joined: 05/23/2017

View Profile



Posted: 07/18/21 02:27pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

MNRon, I was looking at your other thread and noticed this.

"With that said, I tried it two or three times and got similar results: arc50 shows +30A or so charging batteries from generator; AC turned on and current swings momentarily to -400A 12v current or so, oscillates briefly then 3012 kicks generator out and settles down to -180A (had some lights and other things on) running AC fine; after little bit 3012 tries to bring generator back in (still running) and current jumps back up to -400A range again. After a few sequences watching this oscillatory behavior I chose to run AC off of batteries alone for an hour or so (it was HOT out) but didn’t want to subject my AC to any further experimentation."

When your trying to start/ run your A/C are you allowing the Magnum to charge your batteries at the same time? If so have you tried the A/C with the charger turned off and if so is it faulting off also?

When I use my generator I do not allow the Magnum to charge from the inverter/ charger while using the A/C. You know it takes maybe a minute +/- or so for the Magnum to sync with the generator when it excepts the generator turn off the charger and see if you still have issues...if you haven't tried this already. [emoticon]

MNRon

Tennessee

Senior Member

Joined: 08/18/2007

View Profile



Good Sam RV Club Member

Offline
Posted: 07/18/21 04:40pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Itinerant1- Thanks

Good news is I changed 3 things this morning (AC input from 22A to 27A, LBCo from 10 —> 11v and Search from 10W to OFF); it was mid 90s out after church and it fired up like a champ: without inverter support being on, and with charging on.

Ran for 3-4hrs with one AC on, brought SOC up from 60% to 95% and kept coach in low 90s on the one AC while outside temps climbed to 103deg. Genny power was pretty consistent at ~3.24kW for most of the time, tailing down to ~2.3kW towards end as batteries mostly charged: powering charger, 1 AC, and the low fan on the other AC (no compressor)).

Bad news is I decided it was time to experiment and learn a little [emoticon]
* I turned off the charger, genny power to ~1.8kW; turned on the inverter support; and attempted to start the second AC. Inverter kicked out the genny and faulted.

Worse, is now I couldn’t get the genny to power any AC!!! I played for 20-30min trying to start AC on just genny, with inverter support, on inverter and then trying to bring genny in, with charger on and off and anything I could think of. Once the genny over current faulted and took itself out, but all the rest of the times the inverter would kick the genny out or not let it in sometimes faulting itself.

Temperature is rising and I’m kicking myself for messing with it. Finally looking under inverter tech section on faults I noticed Vdc was at 10.5 during last fault so I moved cutout down to 10.4v and next attempt the genny started and ran the AC (without going slow - fan, then compressor; and without locking the charger out.

At this point I’m running an AC again and not messing with it any more today. Tomorrow AM I’ll call Magnum, it sure seems like their “qualifying” of genny before/as switching it in is somehow not playing well with the generator and AC surge. Unfortunately I didn’t put an inverter bypass in when I installed the Magnum so can’t take it completely out of the loop.

Greatly appreciate your thoughts and help. If you have any other ideas I’m all ears, but doubt I’ll risk loosing AC again today [emoticon]

Reply to Topic  |  Subscribe  |  Print Topic  |  Post New Topic  | 
Page of 4  
Next

Open Roads Forum  >  Tech Issues

 > Westinghouse i4500 Generator
Search:   Advanced Search

Search only in Tech Issues


New posts No new posts
Closed, new posts Closed, no new posts
Moved, new posts Moved, no new posts

Adjust text size:




© 2021 CWI, Inc. © 2021 Good Sam Enterprises, LLC. All Rights Reserved.