8 people killed in Utah sand storm

[bgum]

It appears that at least one RV was destroyed in this tragic incident.
More than 20 vehicles were involved and a contributing factor was a sand storm. We pray for all those involved.

[CavemanCharlie]

I don't know what sandstorms are like.

Here in SW MN if there are going to be whiteout conditions in the winter it is announced on the TV and radio ahead of time.

That's not to say that there can't be a temporary whiteout conditions on a windy day as you pass a snowbank on the side of the road. In those conditions it's best to just take your foot off of the gas and keep going until you get past it.

But, a sandstorm caused by a thunderstorm would be hard to predict I bet.

[Grit_dog]

JRscooby wrote:


Decades and millions of miles of driving, and the only time things ever went from can see to drive 50, to can't see at all, was when I had a headlight issue. There have been times when rain increased to the point I hope I'm on the shoulder.
IMHO, for anybody to say "I must go, even when I can't see because a idiot might not see me stopped" takes a special kind of stupid.
Now often trucks do hit, driving to fast for conditions. But normally the change in conditions is traction, not visibility

Well, all I can say is case closed. If Scoob hasn't experienced it, it must not exist. And apparently never been rear ended by a vehicle that couldn't stop as fast as you could either.....
PS I must be dreaming everytime a white out gust blows though during a winter storm reducing visibility from ok to zero, in less than a second.
Good grief....
He!!, driving the wife's car in traffic, if it's time to get on the binders, I'm 99% worried about someone rear ending my car, not the other way around. With 20 Brembo brake pistons, almost 12" wide sticky tires and a trans that will rip downshifts in 16 milliseconds gear after gear, I'm far more likely to get hit by anyone following me than not stopping in time for the car in front of me.

[time2roll]

I always enjoy going past a semi truck that has the hazards on and then the truck pulls out in front of me. Effectively no turn signals is a hazard. Please do not lane change until the hazard has been eliminated.

[thomasmnile]

Florida repealed the hazard light law effective July 1st, replacing it with a law permitting use of hazard lights while driving in low visibility situations on highways with speed limits of 55 or higher.

[Rick_Jay]

That was a sad accident. Unfortunately, I think that is exactly what it is. An accident. My condolences to the loved ones of the lost and those injured.

Isn't there a reason they're called "Hazard Lights"? I always assumed you would use them if a hazardous condition existed.

Law or no law, if I think I am in a hazardous situation to either my vehicle or others, I'm going to use them. I think that IF it ever came to court, one question you would be asked is "Did you turn on your hazard lights as a warning to other vehicles?". I'd rather say "Yes" than open up the can of worms by answering "No". And while I sort of understand the intent of not putting them on in low visibility so someone doesn't follow behind you, I have a problem with that logic. IF they could see your hazard lights, wouldn't they then be able to determine IF you were moving, slowing down or stopped. If they needed to, they might be able to swerve out of the way. Without any lights on, they might not see you until the last minute, or not at all. If they can't see the road, they might not even know they're in the break-down lane. I say put the lights on as a warning and get as far off the road as is safely possible. And if you have it in you, saying a prayer or two might not hurt either! 🙂

~Rick

[Alex_and_Tee]

Alabama: The use of hazard lights is permitted while driving unless otherwise posted.

Alaska: The use of hazard lights is not permitted while driving.

Arizona: Hazard light use is not permitted while driving except in an emergency situation.

Arkansas: Hazard light usage is not permitted while driving except to indicate a traffic hazard.

California: Hazard light use is not permitted while driving except to indicate a traffic hazard.

Connecticut: Hazard light use is permitted while driving unless otherwise posted.

Delaware: Hazard light use is not permitted while driving except to indicate a traffic hazard.

District of Columbia: Hazard light use is permitted while driving.

Florida: The use of hazard lights is not permitted while driving.

Georgia: The use of hazard lights is permitted while driving.

Hawaii: Hazard light use is not permitted while driving.

Idaho: Hazard light use is not permitted while driving except to indicate the presence of a vehicular traffic hazard requiring unusual care in approaching, overtaking or passing.

Illinois: The use of hazard lights is not permitted while driving.

Indiana: Hazard light use is not permitted while driving except in emergency situations.

Iowa: The use of hazard lights are not permitted while driving except to indicate a traffic hazard.

Kansas: Hazard light use is not permitted while driving.

Kentucky: Hazard light use is permitted while driving.

Louisiana: Hazard light use is not permitted while driving.

Maine: Hazard light use is not permitted while driving unless to indicate a traffic hazard.

Maryland: Hazard light use is not permitted while driving except in emergency situations.

Massachusetts: Hazard light use is not permitted while driving.

Michigan: Hazard light use is permitted while driving.

Minnesota: Hazard lights are not permitted while driving except to indicate a traffic hazard.

Mississippi: Hazard light usage is permitted while driving.

Missouri: Hazard light usage is permitted while driving.

Montana: Hazard lights are not permitted while driving except to indicate a traffic hazard.

Nebraska: Hazard light use is permitted while driving.

Nevada: Hazard light usage is not permitted while driving.

New Hampshire: Hazard light use is permitted while driving.

New Jersey: The use of hazard lights is permitted while driving.

New Mexico: Hazard light use is not permitted while driving.

New York: Hazard light use is permitted while driving unless otherwise posted.

North Carolina: Hazard light use is permitted while driving unless otherwise posted.

North Dakota: Hazard light use is permitted while driving unless otherwise posted.

Ohio: Hazard light use is not permitted while driving except when a hazardous condition is present.

Oklahoma: Hazard light use is not permitted while driving except in emergency situations and to indicate a traffic hazard.

Oregon: Hazard light use is permitted while driving unless otherwise posted.

Pennsylvania: Hazard light use is permitted while driving.

Rhode Island: Hazard light use is not permitted while driving.

South Carolina: Hazard lights may be used while driving for the purpose of warning the operators of other vehicles of the presence of a vehicular traffic hazard requiring the exercise of unusual care in approaching, overtaking or passing.

South Dakota: Hazard light use is permitted while driving.

Tennessee: Hazard light use is not permitted while driving except in emergency situations.

Texas: Hazard light use is permitted while driving.

Utah: Hazard light use is permitted while driving.

Vermont: Hazard light use is permitted while driving.

Virginia: Hazard light use is not permitted while driving except for emergency vehicles, stopped or slowed vehicles to indicate a traffic hazard, when traveling as part of a funeral procession, or traveling slower than 30 mph.

Washington: Hazard light use is not permitted while driving except to indicate a traffic hazard.

West Virginia: Hazard lights are not permitted while driving except in emergency situations.

Wisconsin: Hazard lights are not permitted while driving except to indicate a traffic hazard or when a hazardous condition is present.

Wyoming: Hazard light use is permitted while driving.

[cummins2014]

dedmiston wrote:
Hopefully all of us are manually flipping on our headlights as muscle memory when we start the engine and buckle up, daytime or nighttime.

I didn't use to , but I have now for a few years . It took awhile to remember when I start out, and there is still times I forget . Big problem with these new cars ,and trucks now is we don't have to even turn on our lights they come on automatic. Many never touch their light switch .

[cummins2014]

Gdetrailer wrote:

cummins2014 wrote:
I have driven that area many times ,for one its 80 mph speed limit, and they do every bit of it, I would guess some in the 90 mph range . I have been passed going 80 out thru there . I am usually towing the fifth wheel, so going 65. I never pass a car ,nor a Semi. Occasionally another Rv ,but not many. At those speeds they can stack up pretty fast .

According to HERE they list only TWO states which is "illegal" to drive with flashers on.

"However, different states have different rules when it comes to flipping on your flashers while you're driving. It's illegal in places like Florida or Louisiana."

2 out of 50?

That isn't "many" and it is a dumb law too boot.

Why?

Once again from that link above..

"

“Generally, hazard lights are for the driver’s safety,” Woodard said.

Traditionally, we’re taught to turn on our flashing hazard lights when we pull off to the side of the road. Woodard said there are a lot of other situations in which your car can be considered a hazard.

“If you feel like conditions are unsafe, whether your vehicle is having mechanical issues, whether you have a flat and you’re just trying to get to the next exit, if there’s inclement weather,” he said."


In other states failing to turn on the 4 ways could result in you getting additional fines if you pull that stunt and are involved in creating an accident..

4 ways are required by federal law to be built into modern vehicles, in my state, they must function to pass state inspection, they are a safety item which may save not only your life but other motorists..

Many states I have traveled through often post signs on long steep hills if you are under the speed limit to turn on flashers..

I have seen some RV's with their flashers on a long grade, but traveling at 65, which seems pretty normal for a lot of Rv's ,I don't recall seeing anyone with flashers on .Is that what you are alluding to replying to my post ?????? I do travel under the speed limit regardless whether its 80 here in Utah or 70 , as said I, at 65 while towing.

[Gdetrailer]

cummins2014 wrote:
I have driven that area many times ,for one its 80 mph speed limit, and they do every bit of it, I would guess some in the 90 mph range . I have been passed going 80 out thru there . I am usually towing the fifth wheel, so going 65. I never pass a car ,nor a Semi. Occasionally another Rv ,but not many. At those speeds they can stack up pretty fast .

According to HERE they list only TWO states which is "illegal" to drive with flashers on.

"However, different states have different rules when it comes to flipping on your flashers while you're driving. It's illegal in places like Florida or Louisiana."

2 out of 50?

That isn't "many" and it is a dumb law too boot.

Why?

Once again from that link above..

"

“Generally, hazard lights are for the driver’s safety,” Woodard said.

Traditionally, we’re taught to turn on our flashing hazard lights when we pull off to the side of the road. Woodard said there are a lot of other situations in which your car can be considered a hazard.

“If you feel like conditions are unsafe, whether your vehicle is having mechanical issues, whether you have a flat and you’re just trying to get to the next exit, if there’s inclement weather,” he said."


In other states failing to turn on the 4 ways could result in you getting additional fines if you pull that stunt and are involved in creating an accident..

4 ways are required by federal law to be built into modern vehicles, in my state, they must function to pass state inspection, they are a safety item which may save not only your life but other motorists..

Many states I have traveled through often post signs on long steep hills if you are under the speed limit to turn on flashers..

[cummins2014]

I have driven that area many times ,for one its 80 mph speed limit, and they do every bit of it, I would guess some in the 90 mph range . I have been passed going 80 out thru there . I am usually towing the fifth wheel, so going 65. I never pass a car ,nor a Semi. Occasionally another Rv ,but not many. At those speeds they can stack up pretty fast .

[Alex_and_Tee]

I lived in AZ for 5 years and will be heading back in a few months. Have seen the haboobs they gey from time to time and they always say on the news to pull off the road as far as you can. No lights, no flashers so know one thinks you are on the road and just wait it out. Most states it’s illegal to drive with your flashers on. Shame most people don’t know that.

[JRscooby]

Thermoguy wrote:

So, your driving along at say 50mph, then a sandstorm fueled by strong winds takes away your visibility so you can't see past your bumper, what do you do? If you hit the brakes, you cause a chain reaction accident on the freeway, if you don't hit the brakes you sail right through it or hit the car in front of you that hit the brakes... Which do you think happened here? No one knows for sure, but on a straight road you would probably drive right out of it is you didn't touch the brakes and just held your car straight. These things happen because someone freaked out and tried to stop and the people behind them didn't.

I almost got in a car accident because someone hit the brakes driving on wet roads, there was an unseen puddle and they hit the brakes in moderately heavy traffic, everyone else just held their course. Hitting the brakes causes the car to swerve vs holding your lane and riding through it.

Decades and millions of miles of driving, and the only time things ever went from can see to drive 50, to can't see at all, was when I had a headlight issue. If you have your head where it belongs you can see that visibility is fading, or you can see a wall of dust, snow, rain, smoke that you can't see thru. If you drop your speed before you hit that wall, you will not hit anything hidden by that wall. There have been times when rain increased to the point I hope I'm on the shoulder.
IMHO, for anybody to say "I must go, even when I can't see because a idiot might not see me stopped" takes a special kind of stupid.
Now often trucks do hit, driving to fast for conditions. But normally the change in conditions is traction, not visibility

[dedmiston]

Hopefully all of us are manually flipping on our headlights as muscle memory when we start the engine and buckle up, daytime or nighttime.

[Gdetrailer]

CA Traveler wrote:
The best choice is to pull off as far as possible, lights off, foot off the brake, flashers off as you don't want someone to follow your lights. Wait it out.

It all depends on the situation.

Pulling off the side with no lights or flashers can be extremely deadly.

Here is a real life situation I ran into one early clear morning before dawn (no sun light).

Just got on to an Interstate and accelerated to 60 MPH, drove two miles in the clear with perfect visibility.

Out of the blue I was blanketed in what I thought was a dense fog cloud so thick that I couldn't see past my hood and the fog covered all lanes of the road. Fortunately no one was in front of me or behind me and I stomped on the brakes down to a crawl (under 5 MPH)..

Drove 1/4 mile that way with zero visibility until I saw blinking 4 ways on a semi tractor (as the "fog" thinned out some) that was on the side of the road (where you mentioned to go). The fog cloud was coming from the semi!

Near as I could figure, the semi blew a radiator hose or some part of the cooling system creating a very dense cloud of antifreeze vapor.

If I would have pulled off and turned all lights off (including 4 ways)I would have possibly drove right into the semi in the process or the next vehicles that would have been driving my direction may have plowed into me and the semi..

The idea of 4 ways is to provide some sort of hint to drivers that may be around you that you are there and you are moving slower than posted speed limit, or have become disabled (on the road or on the berm)and had to make an emergency stop.