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 > Engine blew white smoke died then generator

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buystockinfun

California

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Posted: 08/04/21 03:39am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Well the gauge worked really well for $2,500 mi and then I drove 350 miles and it still said full so I did check the level and it was probably at one half I'm guessing but maybe more because I found the source of the problem.

So I drained the water separator once I found where that was and a bunch of black stuff came out like pepper looking almost only I couldn't tell the texture at the time but it was about the size of that ground pepper that you can grind yourself. There was no water in it I could tell that but basically it's like algae I guess sludge but they call it algae basically.

So the dealer where I bought the RV said oops we forgot to change the filters we were in too much of a hurry. I wish they would have changed the filters so God knows you know how long that's been there like that I don't know if it's from the filter or from the tank.

So I stuck an awning stick in the 200 gallon roughly diesel tank and black came off on the edge when I scraped the metal awning thing against the inside of the tank nothing came out of the tank unless I scraped it but there was black on there and it wasn't real thick or anything it was almost like an ink pen that leaked and how you would smear that maybe.

So in order to get this to drive I actually had a spare water separator filter or whatever they call it in the RV. So I got some Diesel from the road crew nearby and fill the new one up so that it would prime easier. I turn the ignition key on but didn't start it and cycled it after about 30 seconds about five times and what I think was priming the water separator and perhaps the fuel filter. Then I turn the engine over and it started right away. I did not change the fuel filter even though I have a spare one of those that's even harder to get to. So it looks like the tank goes to the water separator then the fuel filter and then the pump and perhaps the filter finally got so clogged that it wouldn't run. That or the fuel level is lower than I think and it was picking up some of that algae from the tank. I don't know for sure but wouldn't the algae be the same in the tank and I'm calling it algae it's sludge or whatever grows there in the diesel tank I guess but wouldn't that still be there no matter the fuel level so cuz it's picking up from the bottom I would assume so whether it's full or half full or one third full I mean I get it when it's got no fuel left that would be bad but it never got anywhere near there it certainly between a third and 2/3. Maybe the perfect storm of sloping down hill in some way affected it with that slope. But clearly the filter had sludge in it and it looked like probably 8% of the fluid was that sludge coming out of the filter so maybe that clogged the filter to the point where it choke the motor out not sure why it belched white smoke when that happened but maybe cuz it was struggling I don't know or it's burning sludge although I get the feeling that the sludge never made it past the water separator and that contributed to perhaps why I think I had more fuel than a half a tank for sure in so many miles of the poor motor was probably starved for fuel the whole time.

What tells me it's more the tank than maybe a bad or dirty filter is that the generator did the same thing now I don't know what the odds of that are I mean what would the odds be that the engine would die due to algae at the exact same time the generator would when they're two different filtration systems sucking from the same tank. So perhaps you know maybe everything swallowed a bunch of sludge at that one time the thing is I tried to start the generator and that thing hadn't run in days... So it is a bit of a mystery there was no water and there's sludge but I just can't quite figure out why the generator would die at the exact same time when I tried to start it basically it did the same exact thing.

Long story longer I pulled into town about 50 miles later possibly tomorrow getting another filter just so I can have it until I can get the thing home and take care of it when all of a sudden it won't go any faster than about 20 mph. I look down in the transmission says two on the little Allison control board. I thought it was dying from that sludge but as it turns out the transmission was stuck in second gear I guess out of six speeds so I pull up to Walmart where I'm going to try to figure out what the heck's going on and the truck won't go into neutral I put the air brake on and it stops it but as soon as I release that the motorhome starts moving being in second gear. I took the control panel off and unplugged the transmission control maybe trying to reset it I don't know and then I plugged it back in and it still had the same thing a 2. The transmission is an mh4000 Allison 6 speed from about 2006. So I do the diagnostic check for the fluid or whatever for the transmission level and it flashes a code that is 56 which indicates that it needs to be in neutral of course we know it wouldn't go in neutral. So I turn the truck off which I hated to have to do at that moment and then I turned it back on and then the two Ns flashed. I tested the oil level for the transmission and all this Allison stuff refers to the transmission fluid as oil by the way which I think is kind of dumb but I guess it's a form of oil. It said that it was four quarts low. I did find a small dripping leak that would leave the size of a silver dollar after about 5 min of running park somewhere so I can only imagine how much it's leaking while driving that's probably where the four quarts went since my understanding is these things do not burn transmission fluid. It has some special fluid called TransSynd. Apparently you're not supposed to mix dextron 3 with this type of fluid which is a full synthetic I guess some kind of special ****. I probably could because it's already a hundred thousand miles into the 150,000 service interval so I suppose with dexron 3 which goes to 50,000 that would put it at the service interval anyway. But I'm not 100% sure that it doesn't do something else if you combined extra on three with this TransSynd. Of course there's nowhere that sells it so I'm not sure they have Lucas transmission fix cuz there's that little bit of a leak I'm not sure where it's coming from I figure okay what could have hurt with 4 quarts of that so I'm going to call that company tomorrow and see if that **** will work in it if it's next time three anyway and this is something that's supposed to work with everything Lucas oil transfix maybe I'll just use that if I can't find the **** fluid. Anyway that's a whole other problem that showed up and I don't really know if the transmission is going to even work after I do this it went to neutral after I shut it off and it ran perfect all the way up until I got into town and all of a sudden it wouldn't go out a second gear I don't know why so I'm not too sure like it didn't even act up you don't just usually have like a catastrophic transmission failure like that I don't think especially when there's no symptoms and it was working perfectly fine and it was like nothing that even happened I don't know if it's because of the four quarts low maybe it protected itself you can't tell it just has 2 displayed.

Back to the fuel problem. So I took the filter off of the Onan 12.5 KW generator which is a Cummins. Of course there's no fuel filter in town for Cummins generators in Cortez Colorado. So I tried to actually make my own filter but I could never find a quarter
Inch to like a 5/16 Barb then I could just put an inline fuel filter in there of some kind you know with a 5/16 fuel line couplings etc. So I filtered fresh diesel through it filled both sides and took an air compressor and blew it out at 100 PSI blowing from the engine fuel pump side to these supply side that way I don't force any contaminants into the filtered side. Did that about 15 times filled it up and blew it out then I filled it up one more time reinstalled it and the generator started right up. So who knows I mean that's just both filters to that point at the exact same time and they're generators hardly ever run so you tell me I got no idea like what's going on with that or the transmission honestly I hope it works tomorrow I'll keep you updated I don't I guess I need to post the transmission issue in a separate thread.

Ivylog

Blairsville, GA and WPB, FL.

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Posted: 08/04/21 05:08am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I would go ahead and change the fuel filter on the engine… strap wrench, 10-12” 1/2 drive extension, 1/2” ratchet.
Is the tranny oil leak from the passenger side in the middle of it… not from either end? Monaco used a wet PTO drive for the hydraulic pump that runs the radiator fan and the power steering. The small oil return hose is known to leak or the gasket between the PTO and the tranny… a transmission fix will not help. Oil is cheap and yes, you need to try and find a synthetic transmission fluid… there’s a half dozen different makers besides TranSyind. 4 quarts low didn’t hurt anything and removing the bedroom hatch will let you add fluid (not the one in the closer and it could be dot 3) to the tranny. You can overfill it by 3-4 quarts.


This post is my opinion (free advice). It is not intended to influence anyone's judgment nor do I advocate anyone do what I propose.
Sold 04 Dynasty to our son after 14 great years.
Upgraded with a 08 HR Navigator 45’...


oliviaolivv0101

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Posted: 08/04/21 06:18am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Did someone put gas in your tank?

CA Traveler

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Posted: 08/04/21 08:04am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Add the correct transmission fluid. You have water in the tank and algae. Be prepared to change filters often. ie Carry spare diesel and tools to change BOTH engine filters. DO NOT BLOW OUT THE FILTER WITH COMPRESSED AIR. The filter did it's job, discard it and don't risk using a ruptured filter.

DO NOT MONKEY WITH THE GEN FILTER. Find the correct filter. Your fuel filters should be available at truck repair shops.

Get professional advice because your problems could be a lot more expensive if the algae problem and low tranny oil (YES it's oil) is not resolved.


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Bob


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Posted: 08/04/21 08:16am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Water in the tank can be from the fuel station and condensation. Condensation is a result of daily temperature changes and warm fuel returned from the engine. Always fill the tank before storage to reduce condensation. Use fuel conditioners to help control your problems.

Give serious consideration to having your tank fuel cleaned.

wolfe10

Texas

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Posted: 08/04/21 08:45am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Another option, particularly if you are near a marine area is to have a FUEL POLISHER clean the tank. Very effective at removing most of the water and algae.

Also, add a biocide such as BIOBAR JF.

Running on restricted fuel flow CAN damage your fuel injection system as well as cause performance issues.

* This post was edited 08/04/21 09:11am by wolfe10 *


Brett Wolfe
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YC 1

Yuba City Calif./ Auburndale Florida

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Posted: 08/04/21 08:47am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

The engine and transmission talk to each other. They protect each other.

You can get all kinds of strange problems with clogged filters. I may have missed it but you said you had not changed the regular fuel filter yet.

If not, why not?

Have you put algae cleaner in the tank? A huge load of algae could take a bit of work to clean.

I carry two sets of fuel filters on board at all times and a syphon hose to pull fuel out of the tank for priming the filters if needed. Follow the directions on the side of the filter for filling.


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wa8yxm

Davison Michigan (East of Flint)

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Posted: 08/04/21 05:33pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

True story. There used to be a fuel company who advertised "You can trust...."(Description of their company shirt).

One of their stations got caught topping off their tanks.... with a garden hose.

I had a car that could burn dang near anything it did not need 87 80 was good enough.. it ran very poorly on that stations product... I stopped going there.

Page 2: My Advice Sir, Get De-ICer.. Well that's the brand I burned, till the company was sold and ... not so pleased with the new owners.

De-Icer by the way was HEET gasline antifreeze as it turns out the delivery driver addded it after he filled the storage tanks.

My Daughter's Godfather went to a local "independent" and he laughed at how much more I was paying for "Name brand" gas... Till the water in his tank got high enough to bust his fuel pump and I had to tow his ride to the shop.

Page 3, another De-Icer
Ham was having a problem with his car, Ran for like half a mile then stalled, then re-started and another half mile... Yup. Gas Line Freezup. I was discussing it with another ham who was helping him and the other ham "Well what do you do about it" (Note I had that problem with the First story car)

I told him about gas line antifreeze. Where do you get it "Gas stations and hardware stores.. Paint stores sell it under a different name (It's denatured alcohol. Shellac Thinner)

The troubled ham was stalling out... In front of a hardware
He went in, bought a can, dumped it in, and drove home no further problems. Returned the next day and bought a case of the stuff.

Water in fuel is an issue with Pure Gasoline, or Diesel
The new E-10.... it's not so big an issue... Why.. E= Ethel Alcohol.. that is Denatured alcohol or gas line antifreeze.


Home was where I park it. but alas the.
2005 Damon Intruder 377 Alas declared a total loss
after a semi "nicked" it. Still have the radios
Kenwood TS-2000, ICOM ID-5100, ID-51A+2, ID-880 REF030C most times


LouLawrence

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Posted: 08/04/21 06:59pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^I can't even figure out how to reply to this BS as related to the OP's plea for help.^^^^^^^^^^^

buystockinfun

California

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Posted: 08/05/21 04:26pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

These are interesting stories...

I put in Clear Diesel fuel and tank cleaner by Power Services as well as Bio Kleen. The instructions say how much to use for shocking it basically. I called the company and they said using extra doesn't help in any you're better off using it for a second treatment. I added it to the tank and then filled up the fuel tank. You're supposed to wait 8 hours and then run it. I had to get moving so I drove 200 Miles with it in it. Doesn't hurt to drive on it they say but it reduces the amount of treatment at least in the tank section that's not got fuel in it anymore so topping it off would treat the whole tank versus 200 miles that say you lose 25 gallons or 15% of the tank therefore you lose the treatment on that portion but still the rest of the tank is being treated the whole time as well as maybe the fuel lines I guess and even the new filter and fuel filter.

I did not change the fuel filter because from what I hear the water separator is the first filter even though it's not a true filter apparently the particular matter of this algae get stuck in that filter that's the primary one. I have no doubt the fuel filter is at least somewhat compromised but I was able to get it started and I was not in a position to be able to remove a fuel filter way up under the engine. I was lucky enough to be able to and remove this water separator. Usually there are much tighter but I didn't have a fuel filter and I needed to get down the road. The new separator made the engine run great so I was able to drive it with the fuel filter that was already on it.

I might have mentioned I blew out the generator filter this was mainly just a test to see if it would even start and I know using compressed air isn't ideal but it would be okay for a test start anyway I mean even coming recommended or said that I could use starting fluid as long as you didn't use it very much. I will probably never use starting fluid on a diesel engine. Someone told me I could run ATF in the filter but might need to use starting fluid to start it well I'd rather not do that instead I was able to prime the pump with the help of one of the people that was actually on the highway crew working on the one lane road.

The reason I didn't change the fuel filter was I just didn't have one and I was stuck in the middle of nowhere. I now have a fuel filter and I purchased an additional fuel filter and several additional water separators. So far I drove that 200 miles and it ran fine on the new water separator. It's my understanding I will probably need to replace a filter again apparently doesn't remove the sludge like chlorine would in a pool but it gets it off the tank surface and then it ends up in the filter still. That kind of contradicts what the company advertisement for one of the products of the two I mentioned says that it allows it to eliminate water and contaminants like sludge without clogging the filter so I don't know how it does that if it doesn't eat it for example but according to that company that sells this stuff I may need to replace the filters which contradicts what they say about not needing to by using it LOL but either way I've got extra filters for when it starts to act stupid. I need to run this tank out and then when I get somewhere for an overnight I will put enough additive for another shock and then fill the tank and then let it sit overnight basically like 8 hours like they say. I have a feeling the other filter had this problem before I bought it I drove 2000 miles before it completely plugged it and it was probably already partially plugged and I didn't know it. The deal are supposedly changed the filter but they lied. At any rate the rate of clogging is probably higher when you put this attitude so I fully anticipate having to replace it again.

Is the generator filter I found one that I have not changed yet cuz I haven't had to run it in fact I'm not going to try to run the generator and replace the filter if at all possible until I run a few tanks of this cleaner in because then I may not even need to replace the filter after I put the new one in having just blown it out with compressed air and it working right now. But again I'm not running the generator if I can help it until I burn through a tank or two of the cleaner. As long as I'm staying hooked up at night then maybe I can only waste one filter the one that was already in there and the new one won't be affected.

see what happens with all this but I have been able to actually drive it and start the generator and obviously the engine is running on the RV after doing the above so hopefully this helps somebody else with a similar problem.

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