Why SRW off road?

[Rscconrad]

This may seem like an obvious question but it’s not to me. Why are srw preferred to drw when getting off the beaten path?

Just curious, it is obviously correct from what I have read but I can’t figure out exactly why.

Thanks in advance

[mkirsch]

If nobody's hit on it yet, it's real simple:

SRW cuts two ruts. DRW cuts SIX ruts.

The rear wheels of an SRW will follow right in the path of the front wheels, generally providing less resistance and more assistance as long as there is a bottom.

The rear wheels of the DRW will have to make their own ruts, and squash the rut from the front wheel closed in the process. This takes a LOT more power and causes a LOT more drag.

I had a roommate who was an EMT for a native reservation in rural Canada. Can't remember if he was from Alberta or Saskatchewan, as it's been 20 years since I've seen him. He hated the "mods," the ambulances that were modular units set on DRW van chassis, because of this. A straight SRW van ambulance would go through mud where the "mod" would get stuck.

My own personal experience with this verifies his statement. I tried to forge through the snow with my DRW to bring it up front in late march. Couldn't do it. Even with 4x4. It would hit this snowbank and spin out. My 2WD SRW 1/2 ton walked right through the same snowbank without spinning a wheel.

[robseg]

For me I off road in sand a lot, DRW will get stuck easier in the sand. I don't have a large camper so it wasn't a big deal to me. If I did have a large camper i would have gone with a DRW.

[Reality_Check]

Boy, that's a lot of reading.

Have both (SRW's and DRW's). Bigger camper fits and drives better on dually. Done.

Have had dozens of rocks stuck in between the duals. Anyone that hasn't, just hasn't driven enough yet. Always, ALWAYS, carry a 2# hammer.

No, duals are not as good off road. Seriously, I would never take my camper up trails that are "off road".. I take our rig up places that people cringe at...but it's not "off road". It's a gravel/dirt road that I'm confident I can get back from. It's 100k...imagine the tow bill.

Snow, no, they're not as good either. I drive in snow more than probably 95% of the TC'ers. The rig does fine. No, single wheels are almost always better.

Different needs, different tools. Wouldn't ever think about putting our camper on a SWR.

[n0arp]

jimh425 wrote:
Most people use a SRW with a TC because a SRW is what they already have. The difference in cost of a SRW vs DRW is neglible.

Valid point. If you already have it, you already have it. I spent a lot of good money upgrading a SRW truck to do a DRW's job, and honestly, have done the same on my 3500 DRW to do a larger truck's job. Having the right truck to begin with is the best way to go.

jimh425 wrote:
Some people like me, bought a SRW to use with a TC because a DRW wouldn’t physically fit where I needed to park at work or in a garage with a 7 ft door.. A full size truck barely fit. Again, no problem with the cost difference considering it was about $1K difference when I bought my SRW. I bought the diesel because it was readily available with no gasoline engine F350s to be found on the lot.

Parking in a garage? Sure. For the majority of people a long bed will already be too long to fit, and they will use a parking lot at work.

jimh425 wrote:
Number one reason to buy a gasoline engine is they don’t want to buy more power that they will never use with a TC.

There are a lot of TC users on here grossing near or even over 26K, especially those that have flatbeds, pull a TOAD, or a cargo trailer. For others, you're right - but you can get TCs that will fit on a Tacoma, as well. Having the right truck/TC combo is the key - and for a lot of people, they have a SRW when they should have a DRW or a gasoline engine where a diesel would be beneficial.

jimh425 wrote:
Second is probably the real difference in how complicated they are compared to a gasoline engine. It’s easy to buy gasoline almost anywhere. There is no TC that requires the power of a diesel. It’s clear that there is more payload if you simply do the math GVWR-GVW. Gasoline always wins since max GVWR is always the same since as someone would say … it’s an artificial number.

Again, you can easily get heavy enough to where a diesel is at least a major benefit, by simply towing a trailer behind a TC - as many people do. As you said GVWR is an artificial number and most TC users go by axle ratings. Almost all axle weight for a TC goes on the rear axle, so gas vs diesel here is a moot point on most trucks.

If you look up the load tables on the Ram 3500 DRW tires, the load rating at the PSI on the door sticker happens to be the really close to the RAWR (possibly attributable to rounding... or maybe the spring pack. 2470/tire@65PSI*4=9880lbs. Sticker says RAWR is 9750lbs). So the limiting factor is there - at least if you don't want aftermarket upgrades. That applies to both gas and diesel.

jimh425 wrote:
No, diesels don’t come with a different chassis. In some brands a different transmission and gears are available, but not for gaining a higher payload. Both have plenty of payload for a truck camper.

I never said they have a different chassis. I said they have different running gear, often different axles. For example, the axle that comes on the Ram with HO option has a larger ring gear, tubes, and bearings than the non-HO and gas counterparts. It will carry weight better and handle prolonged abuse with a TC better - especially off the pavement. Even if you don't exceed RAWR, it's more robust.

I've read, but not confirmed, that gas Fords come with the Dana M275 rear and diesels come with M300.

You keep referencing the weight/size/ability of a truck to handle a TC, but fail to realize a lot of people have more TC than they have truck for, regardless of gas vs diesel or SRW vs DRW.

jimh425 wrote:
Diesels still have a more complicated emission system and fuel system. That’s just the truth. If you need the extra power, maybe it’s worth it to you. If you need the extra weight capacity, and can get by with the other issues of a DRW give you maybe you want a DRW. That’s fine, but there are negatives to both diesels and DRWs to go along with the benefits.

More complicated - yes. But for the overwhelming majority of users there will be no difference over the lifespan of the vehicle. The actual difference will just be a difference in maintenance costs - oil, filters, etc - which will amount to a tiny percentage of the overall cost of ownership.

It's also difficult to put a price on driving comfort and enjoyment - which are subjectively much better with a modern diesel.

[jimh406]

n0arp wrote:
Diesel vs gas threads are mostly gas owners trying to justify their decision of cost over performance. They'll throw in some tired anecdotes about emissions in there, which are much more applicable to the early trucks than they are now. Usually it comes down to cost, or paranoia about reliability. Maybe payload, which is a shaky argument because it only tracks if you go by GVWR alone. Diesels often have larger running gear, including stronger axles that can bear more weight.

SRW vs DRW threads are mostly people who are afraid of a little extra width trying to explain that away without admitting it, even though they'll be just as wide once they hook up a fiver or throw on a truck camper and would usually be safer with the extra two tires.

Both are usually full of anecdotes, assumptions, vague third party references, and misinformation.

Most people use a SRW with a TC because a SRW is what they already have. The difference in cost of a SRW vs DRW is neglible.

Some people like me, bought a SRW to use with a TC because a DRW wouldn’t physically fit where I needed to park at work or in a garage with a 7 ft door.. A full size truck barely fit. Again, no problem with the cost difference considering it was about $1K difference when I bought my SRW. I bought the diesel because it was readily available with no gasoline engine F350s to be found on the lot.

Number one reason to buy a gasoline engine is they don’t want to buy more power that they will never use with a TC. Second is probably the real difference in how complicated they are compared to a gasoline engine. It’s easy to buy gasoline almost anywhere. There is no TC that requires the power of a diesel. It’s clear that there is more payload if you simply do the math GVWR-GVW. Gasoline always wins since max GVWR is always the same since as someone would say … it’s an artificial number.

No, diesels don’t come with a different chassis. In some brands a different transmission and gears are available, but not for gaining a higher payload. Both have plenty of payload for a truck camper.

Diesels still have a more complicated emission system and fuel system. That’s just the truth. If you need the extra power, maybe it’s worth it to you. If you need the extra weight capacity, and can get by with the other issues of a DRW give you maybe you want a DRW. That’s fine, but there are negatives to both diesels and DRWs to go along with the benefits.

[Rscconrad]

Well I have a diesel dually now. My next truck camper could go on a srw. I know the advantages of a dually. Trying to educate myself on the advantages of a srw.

[n0arp]

jimh425 wrote:

Kayteg1 wrote:
I think people buying SRW for big camper have the same motivations what people who buy gasoline powered trucks.
They want to start with low expense, only to pay much more on long run.

Money isn't a consideration for most buying SRWs or gasoline engines.

Go read some of archived SRW vs DRW threads and gasoline vs diesel threads to find out why.

Diesel vs gas threads are mostly gas owners trying to justify their decision of cost over performance. They'll throw in some tired anecdotes about emissions in there, which are much more applicable to the early trucks than they are now. Usually it comes down to cost, or paranoia about reliability. Maybe payload, which is a shaky argument because it only tracks if you go by GVWR alone. Diesels often have larger running gear, including stronger axles that can bear more weight.

SRW vs DRW threads are mostly people who are afraid of a little extra width trying to explain that away without admitting it, even though they'll be just as wide once they hook up a fiver or throw on a truck camper and would usually be safer with the extra two tires.

Both are usually full of anecdotes, assumptions, vague third party references, and misinformation.

[deserteagle56]

KD4UPL wrote:
My work truck is a dually. Normally loaded with tools and equipment it weighs about 10,500 pounds. The tool box body on the rear is higher than the cab by about a foot and there's a ladder rack above that. Not exactly like carrying a TC but similar.
I take this truck off road regularly to off grid job sites. I'm often in low range, going thru creeks, over rocks, thru mud, etc. I've been using this truck this way for 16 years. I've gotten a rock stuck between the dual tires exactly once and that was in my driveway at home.
The main draw back for me is the height of the truck. The shorter tires on a dually cause the middle of the long truck frame (crew cab, long bed) to drag on some water breaks.
I used to haul a 4,000 pound 11' TC on a Chevy 3500 SRW; hauled it with that truck for 2 years and then put it on a Chevy 3500 dually. The difference in stability and handling was incredible. I would never want to haul a big heavy TC on a SRW again after having it on the dually.

^ This pretty much has been my experience. Except I've yet to get a rock stuck between the duals and my old Dodge has seen a lot of dirt roads!

[jimh406]

Kayteg1 wrote:
I think people buying SRW for big camper have the same motivations what people who buy gasoline powered trucks.
They want to start with low expense, only to pay much more on long run.

Money isn't a consideration for most buying SRWs or gasoline engines.

Go read some of archived SRW vs DRW threads and gasoline vs diesel threads to find out why.

[JIMNLIN]

Same issues out here in farm and ranch country. Its rare we see a DRW truck with feeder bed doing daily out in the muddy fields/pastures work. Those dual don't work the best for various reasons already mentioned.
Much of my experience with the DRW vs SRW comes from pulling heavy trailers in and out of muddy construction worksites. We kept a F250 4wd heavy service pack with mud terrain tires on our worksite. The loaded trailer was dropped somewhere near by then the F250 was used to pony the heavy trailer into (and out) the work site and dropped where it was needed.
We made the mistake of leaving a DRW/empty GN trailer sitting on site in the mud (mud packed duals). Temps went to mid teens with 30 mph winds that nite. Next day the truck/trailer was due back at our loading yard for a reload. Mud packed between the duals froze and made a very uncomfortable 25 mile ride till tire flex allowed all the frozen mud to sling out of the duals.

OFF ROAD ?? Covers all types of terrain from axle deep mud to sugar sand or narrow trails to fire roads or a gravel/dirt county road.

[Kayteg1]

I think people buying SRW for big camper have the same motivations what people who buy gasoline powered trucks.
They want to start with low expense, only to pay much more on long run.
If the width would be crucial factor, we would have more members driving Toyotas and Nissans with TC on them.
Suppose Toyota 4WD never get stuck. They beat Jeeps all the time.

[KD4UPL]

My work truck is a dually. Normally loaded with tools and equipment it weighs about 10,500 pounds. The tool box body on the rear is higher than the cab by about a foot and there's a ladder rack above that. Not exactly like carrying a TC but similar.
I take this truck off road regularly to off grid job sites. I'm often in low range, going thru creeks, over rocks, thru mud, etc. I've been using this truck this way for 16 years. I've gotten a rock stuck between the dual tires exactly once and that was in my driveway at home.
The main draw back for me is the height of the truck. The shorter tires on a dually cause the middle of the long truck frame (crew cab, long bed) to drag on some water breaks.
I used to haul a 4,000 pound 11' TC on a Chevy 3500 SRW; hauled it with that truck for 2 years and then put it on a Chevy 3500 dually. The difference in stability and handling was incredible. I would never want to haul a big heavy TC on a SRW again after having it on the dually.

[n0arp]

Width is a major issue, but you're already wide with most truck campers, regardless of the truck.

Ruts as mentioned, but I've found them not to be a big issue. I've been in one or two precarious situations due to ruts but came out fine.

You can't air down too much, because the duals might touch, or you might have 19.5s (same goes for a lot of SRW TC haulers).

Rocks can get stuck between duals, but I've only had that happen once where it was wedged enough to stay for any length of time and it still didn't do any major damage.

Unloaded, you have half the weight per inch of contact (not exactly 50% due to the SRWs usually running slightly wider tires). That can cause traction problems. Loaded with a heavy TC, it's less of an issue.

Dually trucks usually ship with slightly shorter tires than their SRW counterparts. That can make it more difficult to climb tall obstacles.

On the flip side, I've found the stability of the dually makes it easier to take a top-heavy load further off the beaten path. With a heavy TC, I have a ton of weight on each of my tires and rarely run into traction issues. If I can fit and climb over obstacles without bottoming out, I generally make it. Due to the long wheel base (a long bed crew cab truck problem, not dually specific) I've used my steps as rockers a time or two and they're kind of beat up.

[Grit_dog]

Rscconrad wrote:
Thanks guys. Good explanations. I figured ruts were involved but never considered rocks between the dualies.

Although a very general question, since posted in TC forum, considering “off road” with any TC that would reasonably be hauled on a dually (bigger campers), I don’t see any measurable gain in performance with a srw over a drw. If anything, a srw is less stable with a narrower rear wheelbase making a drw preferable or at least not a hindrance anywhere one would be “off roading” with a very heavy 8’ wide x 12’ tall box intentionally placed on their truck.

Lose the camper and a srw becomes much more preferable for the reasons mentioned and just overall narrower.