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 > New Coleman Soft Start Option vs Microair

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egarant

Mission Viejo CA

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Posted: 08/12/21 01:57pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I see Coleman (Airexcel) is offering a 13,500 btu Mach 10 NDQ quiet air conditioner with a "soft start" option.

Does anyone know what they are using and does it work as well as the Micriair that I installed in my Coleman.

I am ready to order a new RV and wondering if I should spec. the soft start option or install a Microair after the fact.

Thanks!!


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dougrainer

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Posted: 08/12/21 03:25pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Coleman offers 2 versions of all their Roof AC units.
1. Usually OEM only has the soft start included. The OEM requests this model because they usually are a 30 amp RV or a smaller than 4.0 k genset
2. The standard 95% offered models without the soft start. The problem you run into, especially with supplies limited by Covid, you have to order the soft start as almost all Retailers just stock the standard without the soft start option. To determine if a RVP model has a hard start kit. Doug

2ND NUMBER AFTER THE LETTER IN MODEL NUMBER TELLS THE TALE


IF 5 O6 THEN NO HARD START KIT

IF 7 -8- OR 9 HAS HARD START KIT

egarant

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Posted: 08/12/21 05:02pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

dougrainer wrote:

Coleman offers 2 versions of all their Roof AC units.
1. Usually OEM only has the soft start included. The OEM requests this model because they usually are a 30 amp RV or a smaller than 4.0 k genset
2. The standard 95% offered models without the soft start. The problem you run into, especially with supplies limited by Covid, you have to order the soft start as almost all Retailers just stock the standard without the soft start option. To determine if a RVP model has a hard start kit. Doug

2ND NUMBER AFTER THE LETTER IN MODEL NUMBER TELLS THE TALE


IF 5 O6 THEN NO HARD START KIT

IF 7 -8- OR 9 HAS HARD START KIT


Am I to assume as I am already that an aftermarket Micro-Air is better than the Coleman "soft start"?

dougrainer

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Posted: 08/12/21 06:53pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Yes, your Microair is a better option. BUT, a Hard start kit costs(RVP brand) $35. The Microair costs $300. So, if utilizing just 1 AC unit, I would rather spend $35. Now, If I was utilizing 2 AC units on 30 amp shore Power, I would use the Microair, but it requires 2 at $300 each. Doug

ktmrfs

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Posted: 08/12/21 07:26pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

if your using 30A shore power, stay with the coleman soft start. if your using a <3500VA generator, then use the micro air.

the coleman "soft start" is just a starting cap for the motor, helps but still have a very high surge current need, (w/o it you have an outrageously high surge current)

Micro air will keep the peak starting current less than 20A.


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chuckbear

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Posted: 08/13/21 07:04am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Hard start and soft start are not the same. Chuck

dougrainer

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Posted: 08/13/21 07:55am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

chuckbear wrote:

Hard start and soft start are not the same. Chuck


I think for this discussion, we are talking about the same problem and solution. I have 42 years as a RV tech and have never really heard the term soft start. It has always been called Hard Start, to help boost marginal voltage/amps with a special capacitor or appliance to help get the compressor going. Doug


Hard starters typically cost less than soft starters. However, the forcefulness of a hard start can cause compressor parts to deteriorate faster. ... An electronic soft starter is designed to reduce the starting current of the compressor by actively controlling the current in both the run and start windings.

chuckbear

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Posted: 08/13/21 09:02am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

As you said, "to help boost marginal voltage/amps with a special capacitor or appliance to help get the compressor going." While a soft start system reduces the start-up demand allowing less stress on the compressor and lets the AC units start up easier using a generator or in situations where the RV is already using a heavier load. So these are polar opposites, so if we are using the same name for both, we need to stop doing that so as not to confuse people and have them go out and buy the wrong system. This is from Mike Sokol...

"Sadly, no matter how much we all wish it were true, a hard start capacitor won’t help start an air conditioner compressor using a small generator.

I know that these aftermarket soft start controllers cost a lot of money, especially compared to a $10 Supco hard-start capacitor. But they aren’t the same thing at all. Hard start capacitors are really only useful on a capacitor start induction motor connected to low-voltage utility power."

Chuck

dougrainer

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Posted: 08/13/21 10:19am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

chuckbear wrote:

As you said, "to help boost marginal voltage/amps with a special capacitor or appliance to help get the compressor going." While a soft start system reduces the start-up demand allowing less stress on the compressor and lets the AC units start up easier using a generator or in situations where the RV is already using a heavier load. So these are polar opposites, so if we are using the same name for both, we need to stop doing that so as not to confuse people and have them go out and buy the wrong system. This is from Mike Sokol...

"Sadly, no matter how much we all wish it were true, a hard start capacitor won’t help start an air conditioner compressor using a small generator.

I know that these aftermarket soft start controllers cost a lot of money, especially compared to a $10 Supco hard-start capacitor. But they aren’t the same thing at all. Hard start capacitors are really only useful on a capacitor start induction motor connected to low-voltage utility power."

Chuck


Well, after 42 years I have seen and installed Hard Start capacitors that do indeed work for marginal smaller Gensets and lower than correct 30 amp service line voltage. Over the years I have installed them on older RV AC units instead of replacing the compressor or the complete upper units and have saved my customers lots of dollars. I have even installed them on my 3 and 4 ton home residential units to start a marginal old compressor, that would not start occasionally and still working after 10 years. Saved me from either replacing the outdoor unit or the Compressor. Doug

PS, I still maintain this discussion is about starting on marginal Gensets or Line voltage which both appliances will do the job[emoticon]

jjrbus

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Posted: 08/13/21 10:37am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I have been watching this for some time. It would be nice to see some actual LRA numbers for the Coleman "soft start" vs no soft start. I suspect if they were impressive numbers that Coleman would publish them. I do not see them anyplace unless I am missing something?

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