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jodeb720

Denver

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Posted: 09/27/21 11:02am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I've been rebuilding the inside of my 5er after a structural failure and am on the last mile.

I've built new cabinets, new sink, etc - and I'm down to putting the finishing touches (DW's punch list).

There's a couple of interesting items.

First my Carbon Monoxide detector - battery operated - was (originally) placed about 5' up from floor level - in the "upstairs" sleeping area.

Second, on the bottom of the detector it states "Replace after 2015) and my 5er was manufactured in 2010.

I'm going to address item number two with a new unit, but I thought Carbon Monoxide is heavier than air and should be mounted down near the floor (Like my propane detector - which is hardwired to 12v near my power distribution center).

Where is the proper location for a Carbon Monoxide to be placed in the Trailer.

Thanks in advance!

josh

Boon Docker

Mountain Foothills of Southern Alberta

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Posted: 09/27/21 11:49am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

CO is slightly lighter than air, put the new one back where the original one was. Five feet above the floor is where it should be.

Sjm9911

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Posted: 09/27/21 12:02pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Co mixes readily with air. The amount its lighter makes really no difference. You can place it high or low. Just not in a corner where a wall meets a celling or floor. And yea, they expire after like 8 years. This is why dual propane/co detecters are placed low to the floor. The main thing is to have one and to make sure it works.


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Gdetrailer

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Posted: 09/27/21 12:03pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

jodeb720 wrote:

I've been rebuilding the inside of my 5er after a structural failure and am on the last mile.

I've built new cabinets, new sink, etc - and I'm down to putting the finishing touches (DW's punch list).

There's a couple of interesting items.

First my Carbon Monoxide detector - battery operated - was (originally) placed about 5' up from floor level - in the "upstairs" sleeping area.

Second, on the bottom of the detector it states "Replace after 2015) and my 5er was manufactured in 2010.

I'm going to address item number two with a new unit, but I thought Carbon Monoxide is heavier than air and should be mounted down near the floor (Like my propane detector - which is hardwired to 12v near my power distribution center).

Where is the proper location for a Carbon Monoxide to be placed in the Trailer.

Thanks in advance!

josh


You can easily find that information by looking up the manufacturers installation instructions.

Carbon Monoxide is actually slightly lighter than "air" (an oxymoron since "air" is made up of many different elements like oxygen, nitrogen in specific amounts and so on).

But there is EPA guidance on the placement subject..

Per https://www.epa.gov/indoor-air-quality-i........-should-i-place-carbon-monoxide-detector

"Where Should I Place a Carbon Monoxide Detector?

Because carbon monoxide is slightly lighter than air and also because it may be found with warm, rising air, detectors should be placed on a wall about 5 feet above the floor. The detector may be placed on the ceiling. Do not place the detector right next to or over a fireplace or flame-producing appliance. Keep the detector out of the way of pets and children. Each floor needs a separate detector. If you are getting a single carbon monoxide detector, place it near the sleeping area and make certain the alarm is loud enough to wake you up."


As far as replacing old CO detectors goes, it isn't a bad thing to periodically replace aging detectors. As they age, they can go out of calibration and/or lose sensitivity making them a lot less effective and a lot more a safety hazard if they malfunction (fail to alarm) or alarm after you are dead.

Newer detectors after a certain date have a built in timer which keeps track of how long it has been in use, counting down to the End of Life of the unit. When it reaches EOL, it will typically have some sort of failure beep or indicator and it will no longer function.

For replacements, I prefer the ones that have a digital readout. The readout gives you indication if there are trace amounts of CO in your enclosure well be fore the alarm mode.

Now days alarm typically starts at 100 PPM over a specified amount of time.

I use a wood heater/furnace to heat my home so knowing that there is even 1 PPM showing on the detector gives me a lot of time to take action if the wood furnace is not drafting correctly..

Boon Docker

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Posted: 09/27/21 03:14pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Sjm9911 wrote:

Co mixes readily with air. The amount its lighter makes really no difference. You can place it high or low. Just not in a corner where a wall meets a celling or floor. And yea, they expire after like 8 years. This is why dual propane/co detecters are placed low to the floor. The main thing is to have one and to make sure it works.


What ever is producing the CO is also producing heat, which causes the CO to rise. Not a good idea to have the detector low to the floor.

ferndaleflyer

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Posted: 09/27/21 07:42pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Interesting--I worked as a contractor in Vietnam and lost 2 of my employees to carbon monoxide. A pump in a well stopped working and the foreman went down in it, about 40ft, to see what wrong and the workers above saw him fall into the water and another one went down. He to fell in the water. When they were got out it was determined that the carbon monoxide had killed them. I had been down in that well myself no problem but we in the meantime had started a diesel power station right above the well. We were told that carbon monoxide had settled in the well because it was a heavier gas. Were we told wrong? I have always believed that since then.

dieseltruckdriver

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Posted: 09/27/21 07:51pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ferndaleflyer wrote:

Interesting--I worked as a contractor in Vietnam and lost 2 of my employees to carbon monoxide. A pump in a well stopped working and the foreman went down in it, about 40ft, to see what wrong and the workers above saw him fall into the water and another one went down. He to fell in the water. When they were got out it was determined that the carbon monoxide had killed them. I had been down in that well myself no problem but we in the meantime had started a diesel power station right above the well. We were told that carbon monoxide had settled in the well because it was a heavier gas. Were we told wrong? I have always believed that since then.

CO is very slightly lighter than air but it mixes readily, so it might be possible but without testing the air it is impossible to know for sure.

Edited to add: The line "mixes readily with air" comes directly from some of the literature that I personally deal with at work. I calibrate 9 CO sensors where I work.

I also agree completely with the suggestion to get one with a readout.

* This post was edited 09/27/21 07:59pm by dieseltruckdriver *


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Gdetrailer

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Posted: 09/27/21 08:03pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ferndaleflyer wrote:

Interesting--I worked as a contractor in Vietnam and lost 2 of my employees to carbon monoxide. A pump in a well stopped working and the foreman went down in it, about 40ft, to see what wrong and the workers above saw him fall into the water and another one went down. He to fell in the water. When they were got out it was determined that the carbon monoxide had killed them. I had been down in that well myself no problem but we in the meantime had started a diesel power station right above the well. We were told that carbon monoxide had settled in the well because it was a heavier gas. Were we told wrong? I have always believed that since then.


Unless the exhaust pipe was faulty and was directing the exhaust right into the well, I doubt that was the issue.

There are plenty of other gasses which often seep into and are present in underground places like wells, tunnels, mines which are odorless and will kill you by suffocation.. Most common is Methane..

Miners of the old days used to take a canary into the mines, if it died, they knew it was unsafe and had to exit the mine.

Canary in Coal Mines

Now days they do have special detectors which can test the air quality.

In reality a well should be treated like any enclosed or confined space, some sort of forced fresh air supply established and air quality should have been tested before someone enters..

HERE is a confined space primer..

Sjm9911

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Posted: 09/27/21 08:25pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Boon Docker wrote:

Sjm9911 wrote:

Co mixes readily with air. The amount its lighter makes really no difference. You can place it high or low. Just not in a corner where a wall meets a celling or floor. And yea, they expire after like 8 years. This is why dual propane/co detecters are placed low to the floor. The main thing is to have one and to make sure it works.


What ever is producing the CO is also producing heat, which causes the CO to rise. Not a good idea to have the detector low to the floor.


In all fairness, im a Deputy Chief of a professional urban fire department for 25 years. What I stated was a fact and a professional opinion. CO dosen't nessassarly have to have heat associated with it. And its so slightly lighter then air, it dosen't matter. But it is mostly caused from uncomplete conbustion. If they didn't work close to the floor they wouldn't make a combo propane /CO unit. Or plug in units. Dont belive everything that pops up on Google. I atually do this for a living.

Sjm9911

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Posted: 09/27/21 08:34pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Gdetrailer wrote:

ferndaleflyer wrote:

Interesting--I worked as a contractor in Vietnam and lost 2 of my employees to carbon monoxide. A pump in a well stopped working and the foreman went down in it, about 40ft, to see what wrong and the workers above saw him fall into the water and another one went down. He to fell in the water. When they were got out it was determined that the carbon monoxide had killed them. I had been down in that well myself no problem but we in the meantime had started a diesel power station right above the well. We were told that carbon monoxide had settled in the well because it was a heavier gas. Were we told wrong? I have always believed that since then.


Unless the exhaust pipe was faulty and was directing the exhaust right into the well, I doubt that was the issue.

There are plenty of other gasses which often seep into and are present in underground places like wells, tunnels, mines which are odorless and will kill you by suffocation.. Most common is Methane..

Miners of the old days used to take a canary into the mines, if it died, they knew it was unsafe and had to exit the mine.

Canary in Coal Mines

Now days they do have special detectors which can test the air quality.

In reality a well should be treated like any enclosed or confined space, some sort of forced fresh air supply established and air quality should have been tested before someone enters..

HERE is a confined space primer..


It could have been, air currents and tempature plus humidity can redirect exausts. It could have been a fluke, some strage things do happen. Its like the opposite of a stack effect, there is a technical term I can not remember at the moment. It was most likely lack of oxygen because it was a confined space, as stated above.

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