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 > Can't user 5er again this winter - replace red goo in pipes?

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ktmrfs

Portland, Oregon

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Posted: 11/01/21 01:05pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Fizz wrote:

We seem to go through this discussion every year.

Antifreeze is not used to protect the plumbing. It is used to flush out the water, the only liquid that expands when frozen.



Lets put the urban myth about water being the only liquid that expands when frozen. Amongst the elements the following are a few that are less dense as solids than liquids. (e.g. expand when solidifying)

gallium, silicon, germanium, bismuth, plutonium.

another very very very common compound that relies on the solid being less dense than the liquid is type metal used in printing. That way there are no voids in the type when it is solidified. (an alloy of antimony and tin)

another compound that is less dense as a solid is acetic acid.

While the vast majority of materials are more dense as solid vs. liquid there are many exceptions, water being probably the most common.


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Fizz

Ottawa, Canada

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Posted: 11/01/21 01:18pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Once again Fizz bows out and fades away.
After 20 yrs he should know better than try to answer a simple question and leave it to the experts.

joebedford

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Posted: 11/01/21 02:26pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

TurnThePage wrote:

Once the water's gone, it doesn't matter anymore.
Isn't there a lot of water in the antifreeze?

ktmrfs

Portland, Oregon

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Posted: 11/01/21 02:47pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

joebedford wrote:

TurnThePage wrote:

Once the water's gone, it doesn't matter anymore.
Isn't there a lot of water in the antifreeze?


pure antifreeze is either ethelyne glycol or propalyne glycol. RV is propalyne glycol based (safe for consumption, used in many food items). in pure form no water, and while the freezing point of ethalyne glycol is high (around 10F) it contracts when frozen s no pipe issue, while propalyne glycol has a freezing point around -70F.

Now lots of the RV antifreeze says it turns "slushy" somewhat below 0F or so therefore I suspect it is around 25% propalyne glycol from freezing charts I've seen.

Now some does contain alcohol.

Boon Docker

Mountain Foothills of Southern Alberta

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Posted: 11/01/21 02:58pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Strangely the freezing point of ethylene glycol drops dramatically when water is added to it.

ktmrfs

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Posted: 11/01/21 04:53pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Boon Docker wrote:

Strangely the freezing point of ethylene glycol drops dramatically when water is added to it.


sort of. the freezing point of the combination drops until you get to about 70/30 antifreeze/water. then the freezing point begins to rise again. Luckily the turnover freezing temp is around -70F,

pure ethalyne glycol freezes at about 10F.

Bobbo

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Posted: 11/01/21 08:10pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ktmrfs wrote:

Fizz wrote:

We seem to go through this discussion every year.

Antifreeze is not used to protect the plumbing. It is used to flush out the water, the only liquid that expands when frozen.



Lets put the urban myth about water being the only liquid that expands when frozen. Amongst the elements the following are a few that are less dense as solids than liquids. (e.g. expand when solidifying)

gallium, silicon, germanium, bismuth, plutonium.

another very very very common compound that relies on the solid being less dense than the liquid is type metal used in printing. That way there are no voids in the type when it is solidified. (an alloy of antimony and tin)

another compound that is less dense as a solid is acetic acid.

While the vast majority of materials are more dense as solid vs. liquid there are many exceptions, water being probably the most common.

While you are technically correct, none of those substances are/will be in any RV plumbing. Ever. Most of them are solids at any temperature that is conducive to life. Other than being pedantic, your post is completely immaterial to the subject at hand.


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wa8yxm

Davison Michigan (East of Flint)

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Posted: 11/02/21 05:34am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I like the blow the lines out suggestion. in fact that's how I wintereized after the first winter and playing 7734 getting all the pink **** out of the system.

I figured if the air ever freezes... I won't be worried about the RV.


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fj12ryder

Platte City, MO

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Posted: 11/02/21 07:08am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Bobbo wrote:

ktmrfs wrote:

Fizz wrote:

We seem to go through this discussion every year.

Antifreeze is not used to protect the plumbing. It is used to flush out the water, the only liquid that expands when frozen.



Lets put the urban myth about water being the only liquid that expands when frozen. Amongst the elements the following are a few that are less dense as solids than liquids. (e.g. expand when solidifying)

gallium, silicon, germanium, bismuth, plutonium.

another very very very common compound that relies on the solid being less dense than the liquid is type metal used in printing. That way there are no voids in the type when it is solidified. (an alloy of antimony and tin)

another compound that is less dense as a solid is acetic acid.

While the vast majority of materials are more dense as solid vs. liquid there are many exceptions, water being probably the most common.

While you are technically correct, none of those substances are/will be in any RV plumbing. Ever. Most of them are solids at any temperature that is conducive to life. Other than being pedantic, your post is completely immaterial to the subject at hand.
Nothing wrong with rebutting a blatantly wrong statement.


Howard and Peggy

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Terryallan

Foothills NC

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Posted: 11/07/21 11:19am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

joebedford wrote:

OP here:

My lines are PEX.

I'm aware that I should put some more in the P-traps etc.

I just don't know if the alcohol can get through PEX somehow.


You have already removed the water from the system. Water is what freezes. You have absolutely no reason to do anything else to the system. There is NOTHING in it to freeze.
lock the doors and forget about it. It is as safe now as it was last winter. Don't make this harder than it has to be.


Terry & Shay
Coachman Apex 288BH.
2013 F150 XLT Off Road
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