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3 tons

NV.

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Posted: 11/21/21 01:35pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

2oldman wrote:

3 tons wrote:

BTW, Richard Feyman said that “Science is the satisfactory Philosophy of ignorance”..
Assuming you meant Feynman, I could find many but not that one.


Oops, Thanks I appreciate the correction…

3 tons

3 tons

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Posted: 11/21/21 01:38pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

PT, Agree of disagree with nuclear, I think you might find this worth wild… :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-yALPEpV4w

3 tons

Gdetrailer

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Posted: 11/21/21 01:43pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

pianotuna wrote:

3 tons,

How many years is the half life?

How many SNR's exist in North America? (none at the moment)

How many SNR's are there in the world (2 in Russia but with only one completed with a cost over run of 100%)

How small is an SNR (about 2 football fields).

Where is the permanent storage facility in the world? (none at the moment)

What was the cost on the last 2 nuclear reactors in North America (2016) 27 billion dollars.

How much solar could be installed for 27 billion--with RETAIL pricing being as low as $0.26 cents per watt?

And you like the nuclear option? Go buy a Prevost!


NRC NUCLEAR WASTE FACTS

"During the fission process, two things happen to the uranium in the fuel. First, uranium atoms split, creating energy that is used to produce electricity. The fission creates radioactive isotopes of lighter elements such as cesium-137 and strontium-90. These isotopes, called "fission products," account for most of the heat and penetrating radiation in high-level waste. Second, some uranium atoms capture neutrons produced during fission. These atoms form heavier elements such as plutonium. These heavier-than-uranium, or "transuranic," elements do not produce nearly the amount of heat or penetrating radiation that fission products do, but they take much longer to decay. Transuranic wastes, sometimes called TRU, account for most of the radioactive hazard remaining in high-level waste after 1,000 years.

Radioactive isotopes eventually decay, or disintegrate, to harmless materials. Some isotopes decay in hours or even minutes, but others decay very slowly. Strontium-90 and cesium-137 have half-lives of about 30 years (half the radioactivity will decay in 30 years). Plutonium-239 has a half-life of 24,000 years.

There is no commercial reprocessing of nuclear power fuel in the United States at present; almost all existing commercial high-level waste is unreprocessed spent fuel.
"


Basically, every bit of spent fuel rods are simply stored in cooling pools until they are cool enough to put into specialized flasks designed for cold storage.

Then those flasks are simply disposed of by burying them deep in a high security mountain facility for permanent storage..

Not exactly safe, clean or earth friendly?

pianotuna

Regina, SK, Canada

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Posted: 11/21/21 02:04pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

3 tons,

An apologist for the fossil and nuclear industry? Funded by the Nuclear Energy Institute.

It is always interesting to follow the money.

10000 sections of photovoltaic could power all of USA. In the past I knew some one who farmed 7 sections.

But-back to EV's.


https://youtu.be/pff085WDs_k


Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, 556 amp-hours of Telcom jars, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.

Thermoguy

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Posted: 11/21/21 02:26pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Gdetrailer wrote:

pianotuna wrote:

3 tons,

How many years is the half life?

How many SNR's exist in North America? (none at the moment)

How many SNR's are there in the world (2 in Russia but with only one completed with a cost over run of 100%)

How small is an SNR (about 2 football fields).

Where is the permanent storage facility in the world? (none at the moment)

What was the cost on the last 2 nuclear reactors in North America (2016) 27 billion dollars.

How much solar could be installed for 27 billion--with RETAIL pricing being as low as $0.26 cents per watt?

And you like the nuclear option? Go buy a Prevost!


NRC NUCLEAR WASTE FACTS

"During the fission process, two things happen to the uranium in the fuel. First, uranium atoms split, creating energy that is used to produce electricity. The fission creates radioactive isotopes of lighter elements such as cesium-137 and strontium-90. These isotopes, called "fission products," account for most of the heat and penetrating radiation in high-level waste. Second, some uranium atoms capture neutrons produced during fission. These atoms form heavier elements such as plutonium. These heavier-than-uranium, or "transuranic," elements do not produce nearly the amount of heat or penetrating radiation that fission products do, but they take much longer to decay. Transuranic wastes, sometimes called TRU, account for most of the radioactive hazard remaining in high-level waste after 1,000 years.

Radioactive isotopes eventually decay, or disintegrate, to harmless materials. Some isotopes decay in hours or even minutes, but others decay very slowly. Strontium-90 and cesium-137 have half-lives of about 30 years (half the radioactivity will decay in 30 years). Plutonium-239 has a half-life of 24,000 years.

There is no commercial reprocessing of nuclear power fuel in the United States at present; almost all existing commercial high-level waste is unreprocessed spent fuel.
"


Basically, every bit of spent fuel rods are simply stored in cooling pools until they are cool enough to put into specialized flasks designed for cold storage.

Then those flasks are simply disposed of by burying them deep in a high security mountain facility for permanent storage..

Not exactly safe, clean or earth friendly?


The Idaho National Labs in ID developed a process to recycle and reuse spent Nuclear fuel and make it a much much cleaner process - the government shut the program down when Clinton was president...

In addition, I know of 2 places in the US where spent nuclear waste is buried, 1 is near the Columbia River in WA, the the other is at the INL in Idaho - which is near Yellowstone and on top of the fresh water aquifer that feeds the Snake River...

But, please, trust our government to do the right thing.

I'm not sure if this is come up on this thread. Most of the Lithium used in EV's comes from Communist China. I'm sure that won't cause any problems in the future, either politically, or just thinking of shipping containers of Lithium traveling thousands of miles over the ocean.

time2roll

Southern California

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Posted: 11/21/21 02:36pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Thermoguy wrote:

In addition, I know of 2 places in the US where spent nuclear waste is buried, 1 is near the Columbia River in WA, the the other is at the INL in Idaho - which is near Yellowstone and on top of the fresh water aquifer that feeds the Snake River...
I understand most spent fuel remains on site at the nuke plant because there is no place to actually take it.
I have a decommissioned plant 30 miles from me near the coast. All has been buried in an underground vault on site.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Onofre........r_Generating_Station#Nuclear_Waste_Issue


2001 F150 SuperCrew
2006 Keystone Springdale 249FWBHLS
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3 tons

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Posted: 11/21/21 02:46pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

PT says, “An apologist for the fossil and nuclear industry? Funded by the Nuclear Energy Institute.”

Well, one of the most difficult things one might overcome is resistance to a shift in paradigm… Trust me when I say (from earned experience..) ‘no one’ is afforded an exemption…

However, I well agree with your idea of “Follow the money” as it has incubated near endless false narratives in nearly all realms including, energy, environmental (and wars and divisions) to name a few - All subjective manipulations promoted with only a hint of truth - subjective tactics (malware) that illicit one’s fears are consistently effective, whereby even Goebbels would be impressed…

Respectfully,
3 tons

Gdetrailer

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Posted: 11/21/21 03:40pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Thermoguy wrote:



The Idaho National Labs in ID developed a process to recycle and reuse spent Nuclear fuel and make it a much much cleaner process - the government shut the program down when Clinton was president...

In addition, I know of 2 places in the US where spent nuclear waste is buried, 1 is near the Columbia River in WA, the the other is at the INL in Idaho - which is near Yellowstone and on top of the fresh water aquifer that feeds the Snake River...

But, please, trust our government to do the right thing.

I'm not sure if this is come up on this thread. Most of the Lithium used in EV's comes from Communist China. I'm sure that won't cause any problems in the future, either politically, or just thinking of shipping containers of Lithium traveling thousands of miles over the ocean.


SEE the following.. HERE

At a press conference on August 12th, 1986, US President Ronald Reagan said, “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’”

While sort of said "tongue and cheek" sort of a way, there is a lot of wisdom to be gained to not take everything said or printed by any government to be 100% "for your benefit".

The reality is the majority of the spent fuel rods are living in "temporary" cooling pools "wet storage" on site at each nuclear plant and very little if any has ever been moved to final cold storage. At this time they have zero plans on what the next step is and much of that comes from the 24,000 yrs half life of some of the materials in the rods.

While I would love to embrace alternate power like Nuclear, solar, hydro, wind they truly are not as environmentally friendly as they have been made out to be.

Solar panels use the same methods as making your computer processor, but it is done on a massive scale. That scaling up means massive amounts of heavy metals and highly toxic gasses and compounds must be created, used, then disposed of.

Solar panels also use specialized low iron glass for better energy transfer which requires major changes in how the glass is made and higher refined materials. The cells within the panel must be encapsulated to prevent moisture damage in a plastic.. That plastic uses oil or gas hydro carbon fractions like any other plastic.

Panels when damaged or are no longer producing enough or any power will need to be replaced over time and then you have to figure out how to discard or recycle that mess. Granted supposedly 20 yrs on a panel but a windstorm, tornado, hurricane or even a lightning strike can kill that whole solar farm in an instant creating huge amounts of e waste.

Then consider what happens to all of the gas and diesel that isn't used if zero fossil fuel vehicles were allowed?

Gas and diesel are only a small fraction out of a barrel of crude oil and would now be a unused product which would have to be disposed of.. You cannot simply shut down every oil and gas well and never pump any ever again without affecting every part of your life.

Every single medicine on the market actually starts out using hydro carbon fractions from gas and oil production to build on. Your vehicle tires use oil and gas fractions. Your asphalt pavement you drive on would no longer be available.

Back in the 1880s crude oil was pumped and refined to just to get Kerosene which replaced whale oil for lamps, everything else was discarded.. Gasoline (aka Naptha) was flared off and heavy leftovers were dumped. Today, nearly 99.9% of a barrel of crude has very useful products and byproducts..

Timmo!

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Posted: 11/21/21 03:41pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I don't think there is any disagreement that most new ideas/things/philosophies are oversold and are under-delivered (broken promises).

Team BEV speak as if there is a magic "perpetual motion" type technology capable of generating 100% clean energy; hence BEV is the only answer for everyone (good) and ICE is pit-to-we (bad). Simple binary option--either you're with us or against us. One size fits all.

Team ICE speak of multiple options that include both BEVs and ICE (personal preference/freedom of choice) and question the accuracy of the "sales pitch" proffered by Team BEV.

From Wiki--Perpetual motion is the motion of bodies that continues forever in an unperturbed system. A perpetual motion machine is a hypothetical machine that can do work infinitely without an external energy source. This kind of machine is impossible, as it would violate either the first or second law of thermodynamics or both.

If my clean is your dirty...then is it possible your clean is my dirty?

In some of the prior EV threads, I illustrated my situation that since my wife and I each drive 3-4k miles a year, it will take at least 15 years BEFORE the carbon footprint of the BEV will be less than a comparable ICE (cradle to grave).

Sorry, no one size fits all; not all drivers drive the same. The car culture in So Cali is unlike most of America--mass transit is not king; any day of the week 9 out of 10 cars on the 405 Freeway have zero passengers; just the driver.

Sometimes my correct answer is your incorrect answer.

3 tons

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Posted: 11/21/21 06:44pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Gdetrailer wrote:

Thermoguy wrote:



The Idaho National Labs in ID developed a process to recycle and reuse spent Nuclear fuel and make it a much much cleaner process - the government shut the program down when Clinton was president...

In addition, I know of 2 places in the US where spent nuclear waste is buried, 1 is near the Columbia River in WA, the the other is at the INL in Idaho - which is near Yellowstone and on top of the fresh water aquifer that feeds the Snake River...

But, please, trust our government to do the right thing.

I'm not sure if this is come up on this thread. Most of the Lithium used in EV's comes from Communist China. I'm sure that won't cause any problems in the future, either politically, or just thinking of shipping containers of Lithium traveling thousands of miles over the ocean.


SEE the following.. HERE

At a press conference on August 12th, 1986, US President Ronald Reagan said, “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’”

While sort of said "tongue and cheek" sort of a way, there is a lot of wisdom to be gained to not take everything said or printed by any government to be 100% "for your benefit".

The reality is the majority of the spent fuel rods are living in "temporary" cooling pools "wet storage" on site at each nuclear plant and very little if any has ever been moved to final cold storage. At this time they have zero plans on what the next step is and much of that comes from the 24,000 yrs half life of some of the materials in the rods.

While I would love to embrace alternate power like Nuclear, solar, hydro, wind they truly are not as environmentally friendly as they have been made out to be.

Solar panels use the same methods as making your computer processor, but it is done on a massive scale. That scaling up means massive amounts of heavy metals and highly toxic gasses and compounds must be created, used, then disposed of.

Solar panels also use specialized low iron glass for better energy transfer which requires major changes in how the glass is made and higher refined materials. The cells within the panel must be encapsulated to prevent moisture damage in a plastic.. That plastic uses oil or gas hydro carbon fractions like any other plastic.

Panels when damaged or are no longer producing enough or any power will need to be replaced over time and then you have to figure out how to discard or recycle that mess. Granted supposedly 20 yrs on a panel but a windstorm, tornado, hurricane or even a lightning strike can kill that whole solar farm in an instant creating huge amounts of e waste.

Then consider what happens to all of the gas and diesel that isn't used if zero fossil fuel vehicles were allowed?

Gas and diesel are only a small fraction out of a barrel of crude oil and would now be a unused product which would have to be disposed of.. You cannot simply shut down every oil and gas well and never pump any ever again without affecting every part of your life.

Every single medicine on the market actually starts out using hydro carbon fractions from gas and oil production to build on. Your vehicle tires use oil and gas fractions. Your asphalt pavement you drive on would no longer be available.

Back in the 1880s crude oil was pumped and refined to just to get Kerosene which replaced whale oil for lamps, everything else was discarded.. Gasoline (aka Naptha) was flared off and heavy leftovers were dumped. Today, nearly 99.9% of a barrel of crude has very useful products and byproducts..


PLEASE SAY IT AIN’T SO!!!! [emoticon]

3 tons

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