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JRscooby

Indepmo

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Posted: 12/21/21 06:00am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

valhalla360 wrote:

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

There is a reason you see a class 8-10 trucks with diesel engines in them.


Sure for decades diesel fuel was cheaper per gallon and you got better MPG with diesel...win-win for a truck intended to put on 50-100k miles per year. You netted maybe 30-50% more miles per $1.

This lead to manufacturers almost exclusively designing motors for class 8-10 trucks as diesels because the gas engines wouldn't sell.

Swing back 15-20yrs ago and suddenly diesel is more expensive than gas, so the the fuel savings are much smaller but everyone is hard wired to spec a diesel engine and a big durable gas engine would have to be designed from the ground up (and yes, you can design a gas engine that will put out equivalent power and have similar long term durability...there is just no market for it.)


How many miles does the average RV run in a year?
In my early teens, the farm bought first diesel truck. Using that made it hard to get back in the I6 GMC.
In my early '20s, bought my first class 8. Seasonal work, a load or 2 per day I would gross 110,000LBS with that 427 GMC. Much of the day I worked without trailer grossing around 66,000. If I could of made a living running 12,000 miles a year I would of still been driving 1 of the 427s when I retired.

rhagfo

Portland, OR

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Posted: 12/21/21 06:25am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

JIMNLIN wrote:

Sounds like the typical rv guy just bought a new truck. Its the best.

Mountains in Georgia ???
Hell Ive towed commercial trailers in Georgia with the old carb 460/454 gassers pulling 14K-16K GN trailers fully loaded and never saw a actual mountains. A few steep grades but not I would consider moutain grades. Nothing like what I hauled with the same truck/trailers in CO/NM real mountains.
No doubt Fords 7.3 is a great gass tow motor and should be a big hit with many rv folks.

30 min to warm up a diesel ??
And cold in Georgia ??
Hell my old '03 2500 Dodge/Cummins puts heat out on single digit temp mornings the first two miles from my garage. I guess he thinks a frost morning is cold weather. The february storm in 2011 had one morning down to -26 below here that nite and got up to 6 around noon. Ran the starting grid heater twice started right up. Pulled the exhaust brake on and with the high idle had warm air in the cab and engine temp ready to go in 4-5 actual min. Now the NV5600 took a while to shift gears.

His problem was he had the wrong diesel truck for his diesel vs gas analogy and seemed to make assumptions all diesel were like his.

Good vid tho on how the 7.3 gasser handles his small 7600 lb TT.


I agree this is hitting the nail on the head!

OP doesn't need a diesel to tow his small TT, heck I pulled a 6,000# TT over Snoqualmie Pass at 70 mph with our 79 F250 460 and C6 three speed auto.
Yes, a big gas engine with a 10 speed auto should do fine up to about 12K to about 14K.
Heat I surely call BS on his half hour statement, both our 2001 and the 2016 Ram Cummins.
I also can see my engine, and easily reach service items, lifting the cab, this nowadays this might be an option for both gas and diesel for quicker repairs.
Here in the greater Portland area, diesel is either below or the same price as gas.
Maintenance cost, yes, a bit more costly, but not a deal breaker.

Once again if towing less than about 12,000#, gas works, over 12,000# diesel will be a better fit.


Russ & Paula the Beagle Belle.
2016 Ram Laramie 3500 Aisin DRW 4X4 Long bed.
2005 Copper Canyon 293 FWSLS, 32' GVWR 12,360#

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wowens79

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Posted: 12/21/21 06:59am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

The both have their place, for me I only drive about 12k a year, and only about 2k towing a 8k TT, and possibly upgrading to a 12k 5ver in the next year or two. For my use diesel doesn't make sense.


2002 Chevy Silverado 1500HD 6.0l 241k miles and climbing
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IdaD

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Posted: 12/21/21 07:15am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

valhalla360 wrote:

Unless you are towing over 13-14k lb or more than 40-50k miles per year, diesel is a tough sell other than to sooth an ego.

If you have the money and just like the sound and feel, get one.


The cost difference is negligible, and the big 3 diesels perform a lot better whether you're towing or not. I don't see what ego has to do with it.


2015 Cummins Ram 4wd CC/SB


valhalla360

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Posted: 12/21/21 07:52am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

JRscooby wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

There is a reason you see a class 8-10 trucks with diesel engines in them.


Sure for decades diesel fuel was cheaper per gallon and you got better MPG with diesel...win-win for a truck intended to put on 50-100k miles per year. You netted maybe 30-50% more miles per $1.

This lead to manufacturers almost exclusively designing motors for class 8-10 trucks as diesels because the gas engines wouldn't sell.

Swing back 15-20yrs ago and suddenly diesel is more expensive than gas, so the the fuel savings are much smaller but everyone is hard wired to spec a diesel engine and a big durable gas engine would have to be designed from the ground up (and yes, you can design a gas engine that will put out equivalent power and have similar long term durability...there is just no market for it.)


How many miles does the average RV run in a year?
...........


That's the point, you aren't going to pay for your new 350/3500 diesel upgrade with fuel savings and your average gas engine is good for 250,000miles, so if you drive a someone typical 12,500miles per year, the truck will be 20yrs old...which corresponds to when the body and suspension are pretty well shot anyway. Very few engines (gas or diesel) are literally worn out when they go to the junk yard.


Tammy & Mike
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Cummins12V98

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Posted: 12/21/21 08:23am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Fish said "emissions, transmission and injector failures"

Now if you said emissions I would had not commented but injector failure and transmission failure has not been an issue for many years with the 6.7 Cummins.


2015 RAM LongHorn 3500 Dually CrewCab 4X4 CUMMINS/AISIN RearAir 385HP/865TQ 4:10's
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Turtle n Peeps

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Posted: 12/21/21 08:51am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Let me show you people some math for "my" situation and "my" diesel. "Your" math may be different if you live in Canada or England or where ever.

I traveled 5,000 miles on vacation this year. Unlike some of you on here I keep records of every fuel stop because I need to keep tract of costs.

My truck averaged 11.0 MPG on my trip. Sooooo 5,000 divided by 11 = 455 gallons of diesel for my vacation. [emoticon]

I don't have my spreadsheet in front of me so I will go with the cheapest price right now of where "I" live. It's $4.00 a gallon for diesel right now. Regular gas is $3.90 a gallon where "I" live at the same station.

Soooo, $4.00 x 455= $1,820 dollars in fuel for my vacation.

Soooo, if I owned a gas truck the figures would be something like this. Where "I" live gas is $3.90 a gallon. Physics say if I had a gas truck it would get right at 8 MPG pulling "my" trailer. (yes, yes, yes I know some of you are going to say, but, but, but my gas truck gets 15 MPG towing my 15K trailer. Cool story bro) [emoticon]

5000 divided by 8 = 625 gallons of gas for my vacation. So, $3.90 x 625 gallons of gas = $2,437 dollars.

Bottom line: "My" vacation this year cost me $1,820 in diesel. If I would have towed with a gas truck it would have cost me $2,437.

So on this ONE vacation trip for this year I saved $600. [emoticon]

BTW I change my fuel filter 1 time a year and change my oil around 1.5 times a year depending on miles. So less than $200. Big deal. [emoticon]

Not dogging on gas trucks. They work fine. I've towed many miles with them. But for "me", over all, I save money running "my" diesel.


~ Too many freaks & not enough circuses ~


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goducks10

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Posted: 12/21/21 09:41am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

Let me show you people some math for "my" situation and "my" diesel. "Your" math may be different if you live in Canada or England or where ever.

I traveled 5,000 miles on vacation this year. Unlike some of you on here I keep records of every fuel stop because I need to keep tract of costs.

My truck averaged 11.0 MPG on my trip. Sooooo 5,000 divided by 11 = 455 gallons of diesel for my vacation. [emoticon]

I don't have my spreadsheet in front of me so I will go with the cheapest price right now of where "I" live. It's $4.00 a gallon for diesel right now. Regular gas is $3.90 a gallon where "I" live at the same station.

Soooo, $4.00 x 455= $1,820 dollars in fuel for my vacation.

Soooo, if I owned a gas truck the figures would be something like this. Where "I" live gas is $3.90 a gallon. Physics say if I had a gas truck it would get right at 8 MPG pulling "my" trailer. (yes, yes, yes I know some of you are going to say, but, but, but my gas truck gets 15 MPG towing my 15K trailer. Cool story bro) [emoticon]

5000 divided by 8 = 625 gallons of gas for my vacation. So, $3.90 x 625 gallons of gas = $2,437 dollars.

Bottom line: "My" vacation this year cost me $1,820 in diesel. If I would have towed with a gas truck it would have cost me $2,437.

So on this ONE vacation trip for this year I saved $600. [emoticon]

BTW I change my fuel filter 1 time a year and change my oil around 1.5 times a year depending on miles. So less than $200. Big deal. [emoticon]

Not dogging on gas trucks. They work fine. I've towed many miles with them. But for "me", over all, I save money running "my" diesel.


x2 Almost my same exact scenario except my fuel prices were lower but the end result was the same. The fuel difference savings pays for my oil change and filters if I had the dealer do it. They do the oil, I do the fuel filters so I bank the savings.

Also how come no one complains about someone buying a top line model like a Platinum vs an STX and says that the Platinum will never pay for it's self. You don't need the Platinum to tow anything. You get it because you want it and it offers you a benefit over something else.

I enjoy towing my 9500 lb TT through the PNW with a Big Horn CTD just as much as the the guy with the Platinum gaser towing a 9500 lb TT.
We both bought what we wanted.

way2roll

Wilmington NC

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Posted: 12/21/21 09:43am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Thanks for the analysis turtle.

I own a diesel so I get it, but in order to arrive a true net, you must factor that the diesel engine costs about $10k more.

I don't much care about mileage. If I was concerned about mileage while RV'ing I would have bought a Sprinter. That said, the 6.7l turbo diesel mated to the 10 speed transmission gets surprisingly good mileage even while towing. I also keep trucks forever and diesels just last longer than gas. They are also more efficient at producing power - mileage alone tells you that. But the new gas engines are amazingly powerful and efficient compared to just a few years ago.

There are pros and cons to each. In a modern truck either will do the job. Not sure why this becomes such a heated debate and folks have to justify why they own what they own. Choose what works for you.


2020 F350 STX 6.7L Turbo Diesel
2020 FR Cedar Creek Silverback 29rw

Hammerboy

Zeeland, MI

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Posted: 12/21/21 10:13am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

valhalla360 wrote:

Unless you are towing over 13-14k lb or more than 40-50k miles per year, diesel is a tough sell other than to sooth an ego.

If you have the money and just like the sound and feel, get one.


Really? For me it's an easy sell and I don't even reach your supposed requirements. I'm on my third Duramax over the last 18 years - second one with the modern emissions equipment.

Pro's are;
- Overall lower fuel costs including DEF
- Much farther range when towing. I get between 12 -12.5 pulling vs 8-9 if I had the godzilla. Thats 40-50% more range. I can get a days worth of towing in one tank plus I have the option of truck stops to fuel up.
- Much less stressful pulling, not that the gas can't pull it's just I hate the high revs and shifting that they do.
- Longer warranty on the diesel in terms of mileage 100K vs 60k?
- Higher resale, you will get the majority of the diesel money back


Con's:
- Higher repair costs for sure - something I haven't experienced yet
- Higher upfront cost, but again remember resale value on the backend.
- Higher maintenance costs, but not that much higher. Fuel savings alone will more that cover that.

And as far as soothing the ego goes, nope nice try on that one. I think If I spent the money instead on a highly optioned top trim level that would boost my ego more lol.

Dan


2019 Chevy crew LTZ 2500 HD Duramax
2017 Wildcat 29rlx fifth wheel

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