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Gdetrailer

PA

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Joined: 01/05/2007

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Posted: 12/23/21 01:16pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

FWC wrote:

If we want to get all pedantic - these battery packs are really doing the same thing as a petrol generator, which should really be called a genset anyway. They are both converting chemical potential energy to electrical energy. The difference is in how you replenish the chemical potential energy, in a genset you pour in more chemical, in a battery pack you put it back as electricity.

Now I agree it is all marketing bunk, but what isn't these days? These things can replace some petrol-powered generators in some situations, but not all petrol generators in all situations.


The difference being is how can you replenish the electricity back into the battery when the sun doesn't shine and the wind doesn't blow without using a liquid fueled ICE genset or your vehicle?

At least with a liquid fuel, you can indeed "recharge" your ICE gen in the middle of the night..

Not going to do that with a pack of solar panels now are we? [emoticon]

time2roll

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Posted: 12/23/21 01:44pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I especially don't see the use case for an RV. Much better value and capability to upgrade the existing system.


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jaycocreek

Idaho

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Posted: 12/24/21 05:46am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I think they have there place in RV's,especially older ones with limited battery capacity.A small light weight power station that can be used as a wireless charger/portable light and bed side power for cpap or whatever,it's handy,plus being able to just move it to the coffee pot wherever it is for electricity is a huge plus for my truck camper..And just plugging it in like a generator to power the whole camper....

Not for everyone but very nice for some..I have run my AC and microwave off of a larger one without having to mess with my gen sets...They have there place IMHO..

Jayco


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2112

Texas

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Posted: 12/26/21 08:22am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I'm going to circle back to THIS ONE. It's similar to what the OP referenced but with a few different features.

Considering its size, weight, and capability it wouldn't be a bad RV power system upgrade for some people. 3.6kwh of LiFepo4 storage, integrated 4kw psw inverter, integrated solar charger of some sort, 30A of regulated 12VDC output, TT-30R power connector all wrapped up in a clean 100lb package. You could easily spend $3k on a comparable dyi setup.

The downside is nothing in this system is replaceable. As it stands right now, if one component fails the whole system is scrap. That would have to change to get me onboard. Maybe this issue will be addressed in the future.


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jaycocreek

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Posted: 12/26/21 09:18am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Quote:

The downside is nothing in this system is replaceable. As it stands right now, if one component fails the whole system is scrap.


That's just it..I got a very good deal on what was supposed to be refurbished power station from Bluetti,so ordered two thinking christmas gifts..They were both broke,neither would work period and looked brand spanking new..Luckily I got my money back on those two gems then my Jackery 1000 did the same and they do not want to fix it...

I'll stick with 100ah or larger lifepo4 batteries with my fixable and better, components.


Jayco

Gdetrailer

PA

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Posted: 12/26/21 10:49am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

2112 wrote:

I'm going to circle back to THIS ONE. It's similar to what the OP referenced but with a few different features.

Considering its size, weight, and capability it wouldn't be a bad RV power system upgrade for some people. 3.6kwh of LiFepo4 storage, integrated 4kw psw inverter, integrated solar charger of some sort, 30A of regulated 12VDC output, TT-30R power connector all wrapped up in a clean 100lb package. You could easily spend $3k on a comparable dyi setup.


The all in one in your link is $3,600, you can't specify the quality of the components inside the box, duplicates some items that would not be needed if one were to build and integrate a similar setup into their RV system with hand picked quality parts from known suppliers that are willing to back their products and do it for $3K and under.

But still, the problem becomes, just how do I refill all that battery capacity in the middle of the night when the sun doesn't shine and when there is no wind.. The answer is always, you must have some dependable non electric mechanical source (IE ICE gen).

Typical off grid home systems are often designed to take into account no solar or wind charging with enough battery capacity for up to three days of use for the whole house and plans will often also include a backup ICE gen as a failsafe.

Off grid homes have an advantage of lots of space for small to massive scale solar panels and battery banks.. RVs not so much, there are physical space and weight limitations with RVs.

2112 wrote:


The downside is nothing in this system is replaceable. As it stands right now, if one component fails the whole system is scrap. That would have to change to get me onboard. Maybe this issue will be addressed in the future.


And this is a big problem with many of these small no name outfits that often sensationalize "all in one" non ICE power solutions. Company reputation, longevity, customer care/service means nothing to them once they have your money. Repairing no name things becomes your job when the parts inside goes bad, it is up to you to figure out how to cobble it back to life by using other parts that didn't belong there in the first place. Otherwise off to the dump it must go.

FWC

The Wilderness

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Posted: 12/26/21 11:10am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Recharging in the middle of the night is not necessarily a requirement that everyone cares about. Some folks are using their 'generators' for tail gating, or running power tools, or have sufficient battery capacity relative to their consumption that this not a consideration. Other folks care about running it in the middle of then night.

Again, these can replace some ICE-generators for some uses, not all ICE-generators in all uses. There are also times when this would work better than an ICE generator - you can't use a generator indoors, and in a lot of places you can't use a generator due to quiet hours. Different needs for different folks.

Gdetrailer

PA

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Posted: 12/26/21 11:29am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

FWC wrote:

Recharging in the middle of the night is not necessarily a requirement that everyone cares about. Some folks are using their 'generators' for tail gating, or running power tools, or have sufficient battery capacity relative to their consumption that this not a consideration. Other folks care about running it in the middle of then night.

Again, these can replace some ICE-generators for some uses, not all ICE-generators in all uses. There are also times when this would work better than an ICE generator - you can't use a generator indoors, and in a lot of places you can't use a generator due to quiet hours. Different needs for different folks.


I HAVE done the same tailgating thing but not with a ICE gen, but a spare CAR BATTERY and a old UPS which had dead internal batteries for many yrs. One single CAR battery powered computer equipment, a healthy stereo amp and even some CRT TVs for well over 8 hrs.. Used to setup in flee markets all the time to sell and trade electronic equipment. Doesn't take a $3,600 power system to do that, even a 600W ICE gen will handle most tailgating activities unless you plan to use a electric hot plate or microwave.

Calling a battery pack with inverter in a box a "generator" is still very misleading and false lies no matter how much spin you wish to add to it.

Seems to me though the original context was pointed more towards RV use of the device the OP has pointed out and a lot less towards tailgating..

2112

Texas

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Posted: 12/26/21 12:00pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Gdetrailer wrote:

But still, the problem becomes, just how do I refill all that battery capacity in the middle of the night when the sun doesn't shine and when there is no wind.. The answer is always, you must have some dependable non electric mechanical source (IE ICE gen).
I'm not following your argument. Many RV'ers install 4-6 6V GC batteries, a large inverter and solar system in their rig. How is this any different? Are they not faced with the same problem?

Gdetrailer

PA

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Posted: 12/26/21 12:35pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

2112 wrote:

Gdetrailer wrote:

But still, the problem becomes, just how do I refill all that battery capacity in the middle of the night when the sun doesn't shine and when there is no wind.. The answer is always, you must have some dependable non electric mechanical source (IE ICE gen).
I'm not following your argument. Many RV'ers install 4-6 6V GC batteries, a large inverter and solar system in their rig. How is this any different? Are they not faced with the same problem?


Those RV,rs do not call their system a "generator", did not cost them $3,000+ either. They could call it a "generator" if they wished to do so but they don't.

I use a pair of 6V GC2 batteries plus a 1200W inverter to power my home fridge conversion, but I do not call it a generator.

When folks hear the word generator the image and freedom of a ICE engine powered alternator is the first picture that comes to mind.

Calling a battery and inverter in a box and slapping a $3,000+ price tag on it, does not make it a generator.

Something that makes a ICE gen unique is the fact that by removing the fuel, you can store that gen for yrs with no ill effect. You can bring it out of storage, add fuel and it will run the entire time it has fuel.

A battery/inverter system, not so much. Batteries deteriorate with age, use and even lack of use, cannot get the same run time over time, run time degrades with each use, with each storage event or lack of use until the batteries are shot.

With ICE, the fuel is the the consumable, generally the engine and alternator are pretty troublefree. Not unusual to have working ICE powered gensets of 50-60yrs or more in age (yep, there are guys that have bought gensets built back in the 1940's or earlier and repaired them and are back in working order).

With battery/inverter your BATTERY is the "consumable", it is the "engine and fuel" at the same time. How is that battery and inverter going to be working in 50-60yrs?

Big, big difference between the two.

Call it what it is, a portable battery/inverter power source..

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