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 > Are the HP wars over?

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rhagfo

Portland, OR

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Posted: 12/22/21 08:24pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

FishOnOne wrote:

BobsYourUncle wrote:

More power has a price.
While Ford is stopping to refuel more often, GM and Ram will go sailing on past.
It's all relevant! [emoticon][emoticon]


Chevy
[image]
Ford
[image]
Ram
[image]

These results are for 250/2500 trucks so the Ram's data is the lower HP more fuel efficient engine. The Ford and Chevy use the same engine for 250/2500 and 350/3500 trucks.


Interesting that the Ram has way more vehicles, 115 to 43 and 22.


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rhagfo

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Posted: 12/22/21 08:33pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

RoyJ wrote:

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

jdc1 wrote:

Torque is what counts when hauling a load.


LOL, I wish you would tell that to my 440ft/lbs of torque 6.5 when I'm doing 25 MPH up a hill and a 5.3 gas rig with 383ft/lbs comes blowing past me like I'm standing still pulling the same or bigger trailer. [emoticon]


How I like to put it: ultimately, HP gets a load up a hill (as per Newton). Torque is simply a way of making hp, via rpm.

But if an engine ONLY has torque (2000 lb-ft @ 150rpm), it's getting nowhere fast.

Another law of physics: you can always CREATE torque with gearing, but you cannot create more power.


You just made two opposing statements, first is Torque is a way making HP through RPM.
The second, you can create Torque through RPM and gearing.

The second is true.

time2roll

Southern California

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Posted: 12/22/21 09:26pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Between emissions, reliability and cost..... I think the manufacturers are up against a wall. Could be a peak or a leveling off of HP gains..


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schlep1967

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Posted: 12/23/21 05:30am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Could be the Big 3 are realizing that the government is going to force them out of the diesel business in the next few years. So the management is pushing more funding into ELECTRIC towing vehicles.


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Drew A.

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Posted: 12/23/21 06:04am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

So I haven't been keeping up on the HP wars for years.

So I had a little time today and was checking out the 2022 HP wars of the big 3 and was shocked at what I saw. Ford not only was on top but dominated the other 2 by a county mile. I wasn't shocked that Ford was on top but by how far they were ahead.

Ford PS diesel= 475HP (holy ****)
Gm Duramax diesel= 445HP
Ram Cummins diesel=400HP

Now a 30HP lead is BIG but a 75HP lead is annihilating the competition!



Cummins 2021

This says the HO Cummins is 420 HP and 1075 lb-ft


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StirCrazy

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Posted: 12/23/21 06:42am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

IdaD wrote:



Personally I think I'd buy a Duramax if I were buying a new 2022 and I'd give it the edge over the Cummins due to the transmission. PS would be third place. That said I'm happy with my 2015 and intend to keep it many more years.


if you buying for the transmition you better rethink it. the torqushift trans in the ford was spicificly built to out preform the allison in every area and it has. in the tech articles it is the best trans of the three, dodge having the worst. the best thing about the duramax is out of the box fuel mileage for me, for the dodge while its numbers are up there it isn't revy and feels anemic driving around town to the other two. I ended up buying the ford because it was the best truck for the price I could find (used trucks) and have been very happy with it.

Steve


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IdaD

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Posted: 12/23/21 10:10am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

StirCrazy wrote:

IdaD wrote:



Personally I think I'd buy a Duramax if I were buying a new 2022 and I'd give it the edge over the Cummins due to the transmission. PS would be third place. That said I'm happy with my 2015 and intend to keep it many more years.


if you buying for the transmition you better rethink it. the torqushift trans in the ford was spicificly built to out preform the allison in every area and it has. in the tech articles it is the best trans of the three, dodge having the worst. the best thing about the duramax is out of the box fuel mileage for me, for the dodge while its numbers are up there it isn't revy and feels anemic driving around town to the other two. I ended up buying the ford because it was the best truck for the price I could find (used trucks) and have been very happy with it.

Steve


The 68RFE is my trucks weak point, I won't argue that. The Ford and GM transmissions are both better, I don't know enough about either to say which is the best between the two. The Powerstroke is a POS with that CP4, though, so that's a hard pass for me. I would agree also that the Cummins feels the least responsive poking around town but strap on a bunch of weight and get on the highway and it more than holds its own. Also has by far the best exhaust brake of the three which is huge.


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way2roll

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Posted: 12/23/21 10:31am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

IdaD wrote:

StirCrazy wrote:

IdaD wrote:



Personally I think I'd buy a Duramax if I were buying a new 2022 and I'd give it the edge over the Cummins due to the transmission. PS would be third place. That said I'm happy with my 2015 and intend to keep it many more years.


if you buying for the transmition you better rethink it. the torqushift trans in the ford was spicificly built to out preform the allison in every area and it has. in the tech articles it is the best trans of the three, dodge having the worst. the best thing about the duramax is out of the box fuel mileage for me, for the dodge while its numbers are up there it isn't revy and feels anemic driving around town to the other two. I ended up buying the ford because it was the best truck for the price I could find (used trucks) and have been very happy with it.

Steve


The 68RFE is my trucks weak point, I won't argue that. The Ford and GM transmissions are both better, I don't know enough about either to say which is the best between the two. The Powerstroke is a POS with that CP4, though, so that's a hard pass for me. I would agree also that the Cummins feels the least responsive poking around town but strap on a bunch of weight and get on the highway and it more than holds its own. Also has by far the best exhaust brake of the three which is huge.


The Ford 6.7L used a modified CP4 starting in 2015 which employed a new coating on the pistons designed to reduce friction and help the pump survive small amounts of water. There were more modifications to the CP4 on the Ford engine in 2017. I don't think there has been a case of a CP4 failure since 2017. What I do find interesting is Ford's response to pre 2015 warranty claims - and frankly it's shameful - no argument there. Chevy moved away from the CP4 and so did Ram. But I think the newer designed CP4's, plus better water separators have addressed the issue. I have also seen aftermarket CP4 bypass kits but I would imagine they invalidate the warranty, but if Ford won't cover a failure anyway....


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FishOnOne

The Great State of Texas

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Posted: 12/23/21 11:08am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

way2roll wrote:

IdaD wrote:

StirCrazy wrote:

IdaD wrote:



Personally I think I'd buy a Duramax if I were buying a new 2022 and I'd give it the edge over the Cummins due to the transmission. PS would be third place. That said I'm happy with my 2015 and intend to keep it many more years.


if you buying for the transmition you better rethink it. the torqushift trans in the ford was spicificly built to out preform the allison in every area and it has. in the tech articles it is the best trans of the three, dodge having the worst. the best thing about the duramax is out of the box fuel mileage for me, for the dodge while its numbers are up there it isn't revy and feels anemic driving around town to the other two. I ended up buying the ford because it was the best truck for the price I could find (used trucks) and have been very happy with it.

Steve


The 68RFE is my trucks weak point, I won't argue that. The Ford and GM transmissions are both better, I don't know enough about either to say which is the best between the two. The Powerstroke is a POS with that CP4, though, so that's a hard pass for me. I would agree also that the Cummins feels the least responsive poking around town but strap on a bunch of weight and get on the highway and it more than holds its own. Also has by far the best exhaust brake of the three which is huge.


The Ford 6.7L used a modified CP4 starting in 2015 which employed a new coating on the pistons designed to reduce friction and help the pump survive small amounts of water. There were more modifications to the CP4 on the Ford engine in 2017. I don't think there has been a case of a CP4 failure since 2017. What I do find interesting is Ford's response to pre 2015 warranty claims - and frankly it's shameful - no argument there. Chevy moved away from the CP4 and so did Ram. But I think the newer designed CP4's, plus better water separators have addressed the issue. I have also seen aftermarket CP4 bypass kits but I would imagine they invalidate the warranty, but if Ford won't cover a failure anyway....


I believe Fords fuel system improvements came from an improved primary filter design. GM's Denso system continues to have some issues as well including injectors. Cummins implementation of their version of the CP4 was downright dismal.


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Turtle n Peeps

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Posted: 12/23/21 11:39am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Drew A wrote:


Cummins 2021

This says the HO Cummins is 420 HP and 1075 lb-ft


Thanks Drew. I have now seen 400, 410 and now 420. I don't know which is correct? I don't think Ram does either. LOL

I guess the point is there is a big difference in HP of the big 3.


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