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 > Are the HP wars over?

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IdaD

Idaho

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Posted: 12/23/21 04:07pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Cummins12V98 wrote:

IdaD said: "The 68RFE is my trucks weak point"

Have you had issues? Honestly there are not many issues with that trans unless you add a tuner.


Accumulator plate failure which my diesel shop said is quite common and the internet agrees. I could still drive it but not higher than 3rd gear so I was able to limp back home and then to the shop. Ruined the valve body too. $2500 to fix with upgraded parts so not all that expensive, but any problem that renders the truck unusable is a big deal in my book. Truck is completely stock.


2015 Cummins Ram 4wd CC/SB


RoyJ

Vancouver, BC

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Posted: 12/23/21 05:19pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

rhagfo wrote:

RoyJ wrote:

How I like to put it: ultimately, HP gets a load up a hill (as per Newton). Torque is simply a way of making hp, via rpm.

But if an engine ONLY has torque (2000 lb-ft @ 150rpm), it's getting nowhere fast.

Another law of physics: you can always CREATE torque with gearing, but you cannot create more power.


You just made two opposing statements, first is Torque is a way making HP through RPM.
The second, you can create Torque through RPM and gearing.

The second is true.


Which part is opposing?

Torque must have rpm to generate hp. Torque alone is a measurement of force. HP is a measurement of power.

Power = force x velocity (speed)

To climb a hill, you need a certain force at a given speed, which equals power. Torque is not part of the equation.

RoyJ

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Posted: 12/23/21 05:24pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Cummins12V98 wrote:

You beat me to it!

Would be nice to have all three tow 30k with each using their lowest gearing to see how they do on LONG STEEP grades.


I too want to see - Ike in summer.

Read somewhere the PSD will de-throttle under continuous duty cycle. Not sure if it's true.

Does seem too good to be true based on cooling capacity. A class 8 running continuous 475hp requires much larger coolers, and they're likely running higher efficiency than a PSD @ 475hp.

FishOnOne

The Great State of Texas

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Posted: 12/23/21 05:27pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

IdaD wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:

IdaD said: "The 68RFE is my trucks weak point"

Have you had issues? Honestly there are not many issues with that trans unless you add a tuner.


Accumulator plate failure which my diesel shop said is quite common and the internet agrees. I could still drive it but not higher than 3rd gear so I was able to limp back home and then to the shop. Ruined the valve body too. $2500 to fix with upgraded parts so not all that expensive, but any problem that renders the truck unusable is a big deal in my book. Truck is completely stock.


Now hopefully cummins12v98 can connect the dots on why the guy I talked at the gas station this week stated transmissions as one the reasons they went from diesel to gas. The 6.4 Hemi has the ZF 8 speed transmission that looks to be bulletproof. I think its fair to say that every Chrysler designed transmission has been problematic and the 68RFE needs to be put out to the pasture.


'12 Ford Super Duty FX4 ELD CC 6.7 PSD 400HP 800ft/lbs
"200k Mile Club"
'16 Sprinter 319MKS "Wide Body"


Cummins12V98

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Posted: 12/23/21 06:15pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

If you frequent the TDR like I do you will see very few 68rfe issues.


2015 RAM LongHorn 3500 Dually CrewCab 4X4 CUMMINS/AISIN RearAir 385HP/865TQ 4:10's
37,800# GCVWR "Towing Beast"

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2007.5 Mobile Suites 36 SB3 29,000# Combined SOLD

Cummins12V98

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Posted: 12/23/21 06:23pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

RoyJ wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:

You beat me to it!

Would be nice to have all three tow 30k with each using their lowest gearing to see how they do on LONG STEEP grades.


I too want to see - Ike in summer.

Read somewhere the PSD will de-throttle under continuous duty cycle. Not sure if it's true.

Does seem too good to be true based on cooling capacity. A class 8 running continuous 475hp requires much larger coolers, and they're likely running higher efficiency than a PSD @ 475hp.


Watched a guy on YouTube he said when the Ford fan kicks on it is really loud and consumes a lot of power. Just repeating what he experienced.

FishOnOne

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Posted: 12/23/21 07:18pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Cummins12V98 wrote:

RoyJ wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:

You beat me to it!

Would be nice to have all three tow 30k with each using their lowest gearing to see how they do on LONG STEEP grades.


I too want to see - Ike in summer.

Read somewhere the PSD will de-throttle under continuous duty cycle. Not sure if it's true.

Does seem too good to be true based on cooling capacity. A class 8 running continuous 475hp requires much larger coolers, and they're likely running higher efficiency than a PSD @ 475hp.


Watched a guy on YouTube he said when the Ford fan kicks on it is really loud and consumes a lot of power. Just repeating what he experienced.


Watched two guys pull a load up the Ike and the Fords time was ~1 min less than the Ram.

Also watched the same two guys pull 30k lbs down a highway for a fuel economy test and the Fords fuel economy was 1.8 mpg better than the Ram.

Just repeating what they experienced.

* This post was edited 12/24/21 05:58am by FishOnOne *

valhalla360

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Posted: 12/23/21 07:33pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

jdc1 wrote:

Torque is what counts when hauling a load.


Torque (at the wheels including overall gear ratio) determines if you will get up the hill.

HP determines how fast you will get up the hill.

They are related as HP = Torque X RPM

To the original question, yes, I think things are maxing out. Not because it's technologically impossible to build a 700-1000hp engine but because in 95% of conditions, you can travel at any speed you choose with a 400hp motor (with associated fuel consumption increase of course).


Tammy & Mike
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4x4ord

Alberta

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Posted: 12/23/21 08:58pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

valhalla360 wrote:

jdc1 wrote:

Torque is what counts when hauling a load.


Torque (at the wheels including overall gear ratio) determines if you will get up the hill.

HP determines how fast you will get up the hill.

They are related as HP = Torque X RPM

To the original question, yes, I think things are maxing out. Not because it's technologically impossible to build a 700-1000hp engine but because in 95% of conditions, you can travel at any speed you choose with a 400hp motor (with associated fuel consumption increase of course).


400 HP is a little bit skimpy for larger RV's. You need over 500 HP to pull a large RV (20,000 lb fiver) up a 6% grade at 65 mph. I haven't been in the mountains with my 2021 Ford but my 2017 with 440 HP pulled down to about 50 mph on some hills with a 17k lb trailer in tow.


2022 F350 SRW Platinum short box 4x4.
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StirCrazy

Kamloops, BC, Canada

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Posted: 12/24/21 09:34am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

IdaD wrote:

StirCrazy wrote:

IdaD wrote:



Personally I think I'd buy a Duramax if I were buying a new 2022 and I'd give it the edge over the Cummins due to the transmission. PS would be third place. That said I'm happy with my 2015 and intend to keep it many more years.


if you buying for the transmition you better rethink it. the torqushift trans in the ford was spicificly built to out preform the allison in every area and it has. in the tech articles it is the best trans of the three, dodge having the worst. the best thing about the duramax is out of the box fuel mileage for me, for the dodge while its numbers are up there it isn't revy and feels anemic driving around town to the other two. I ended up buying the ford because it was the best truck for the price I could find (used trucks) and have been very happy with it.

Steve


The 68RFE is my trucks weak point, I won't argue that. The Ford and GM transmissions are both better, I don't know enough about either to say which is the best between the two. The Powerstroke is a POS with that CP4, though, so that's a hard pass for me. I would agree also that the Cummins feels the least responsive poking around town but strap on a bunch of weight and get on the highway and it more than holds its own. Also has by far the best exhaust brake of the three which is huge.


the same CP4 dodge uses, althought I just hear they are going back to a different one. we were talking about the CP4 rhumors at work the other day, I know 20 people who have the cp4 in there powerstrokes, and between them propbably hundreds of owners twice removed. no one has ever heard of anyone having an issue with it, only read the odd report on the internet... I have 200K on mine and I am one of the lower milage ones, so I don't know I almost suspect there were a couple of failures and they made a lot of noise. but if your worried about it they make a kit that suposidly takes care of any issues that could come from the failure. but ya I don't know , I supose it is a problem but I don't think its as big as the internet makes it seam. like everything else the 999999 truck owners who have never had an issue don't say anything but the 5 people who have had a issue post 30000 times about it.... just human nature...

as for the trans, when ford mad the torqushift they spicificly made it to beat the allison in every catagory and they suceeded.


2014 F350 6.7 Platinum
2016 Cougar 330RBK
1991 Slumberqueen WS100

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