Why consider 12v fridge for boondocking?

[Vintage465]

So I want to offer up this question out about 12v compressor refrigerators. I'm going to post this on other forums too, so your "forum tramps"(like me)may see this spread around some other pages. Not interested in thoughts regarding space savings, preferance due to fear of propane gas or performance of a 12v vs. propane fridge. Taking all those criteria out, we are left with why or why not. Having said all that this is the base of the question: I keep seeing people use the words "boon docking" and "12v compressor fridges" in the same sentance as though there is an advantage to having a 12v fridge while boon docking. I believe that an absorption fridge is the best boon docking choice because propane nearly lasts forever(at least a month) compared to 12v fridges that are dependent on recharging the battery bank daily. When responding...........not interested in anything other than energy sustainability while boon docking. I also am not interested in peoples opinions on performance between the two as I've never had any issue with any absorption fridge keeping things cool event in 110 degree temps. Just energy sustainability while boon docking.

Thanks!

[teejaywhy]

Gdetrailer wrote:
Your camping in a RV, right?

Your RV NEEDs a 12V battery for basic functions like powering the control board in your propane fridge, right?

Your battery charge does not last a month, right?

You must recharge the battery periodically anyways, right?

Since you obviously must recharge the RV battery, you must have solar, gen and or a huge battery bank to last more than a long weekend, right?

So, where is the "advantage" of a propane fridge if you already have a battery, must have a gen and or solar and recharge the battery daily or every couple of days?

You need to get gas anyway, right? Why not just floor it off the line every time the light turns green? You are going to fill up sooner or later.

[StirCrazy]

Fisherguy wrote:

StirCrazy wrote:

...

40AH on AC.. I have never looked to see what my consumption on AC is as when I use AC I am pluged in and don't care. ...

Steve

Sorry, that 40Ah was with my 12 volt Norcold.
I have room for one more panel, maybe I should go bigger than 200, hmmm...

You ever deal with Riverside Solar in Kamloops?

on my camper I installed a split cell 24V 325 watt panel I am usaly at 100% before noon but I use propane for the fridge and have no real 110 in there. I concider 200 a trip extender size if you use 110 at all or are very power hungry 12V users. what I did was measure the space I had and got the biggest panel that would fit, I still have room for 1 more but unless I put a inverter in I don't think I'll need it. the 5th wheel we use ythe inverter more so I want to upgrade that a little bit.


no Riverside is fairly old but just recently you see there signs poping up and install jobs being done. so I never even knew they existed untill a year or two ago. I was going to see if they could give me a estimate on my house as thats the only way you can qualify for the low interest lones and grants.

Steve

[Fisherguy]

StirCrazy wrote:

...

40AH on AC.. I have never looked to see what my consumption on AC is as when I use AC I am pluged in and don't care. ...

Steve

Sorry, that 40Ah was with my 12 volt Norcold.
I have room for one more panel, maybe I should go bigger than 200, hmmm...

You ever deal with Riverside Solar in Kamloops?

[dsrace]

Huntindog wrote:
My Coach has an 18CF fridge. I have yet to see a 12V fridge that big. I have looked at the specs on some 8CF ones. They are remarkably similar in specs. All of them would drain a 100 AH Battle Born battery every day. So I am pretty sure an 18CF 12V would need two 100 AH batteries each day. To keep my current amount of headroom for bad events, I would need to add 3 Battle Born 100AH batteries. Then I would need to add enough solar to feed them. That is not happening. Not enough room on the roof, and my Solar controllers are maxed out.
I am not interested in going on a electricity consumption diet.
I will keep my gas fridge, thank you very much

With out a doubt, 12 volt comp fridges do not fit everyone's needs. All of my sand dune trip are at parks that have either full hook up or a min of water and electricity. Based on real world trial and the specs in my previous post, our 10 cu ft domestic 12v will easily run 24 hrs on battery only. Im only using 1 200 ah renogy agm. If I were boondocks long term, then the fridge would require a gen or more solar then my current 200 watt system. 200 watts is more of a battery maintainer then a charging system, imo. I thought I saw domestic offered a 13 cu ft 12v but not 100 % on that. I have had 6 campers and 5 of them had absorption fridges. None of those fridges perform like our current domestic 12v as listed in previous post. For our application, I wouldn't willingly go back to an absorption fridge.

This 12v is food safe in 4hrs after start up. Much better for our application as I don't have to turn it on 24 to 48 hrs before. Only the 2 of us and a 10 cu ft is massive over kill. On a 7 day trip we didn't completely fill an 8 cu ft. I doubt the 8 cu ft is any diff on power consumption.

[StirCrazy]

that was what it added to my 5th wheel price in 2016 before I realized how much I could have saved by doing it myself, which I did on the camper.

a 24V split cell 325 watt panel two years ago cost me 200 bucks, but if you look around and contact companies who do solar installs and ask if you can piggy back panels on a order you can get them fairly cheep. but that 500 bucks was US pricing and a PWM controler which are cheep. I did my system in my camper for around that price not including the batteries, it is the 325 watt panel and a MPPT 40 amp controler from renogy. the panel I got from a company in sask but I picked it up in Vancouver at the importer so there who be no shipping charges.

eventualy I am upgrading the system on the 5th wheel by replacing the panels with larger 24V ones and changing out the PWM controler for a MPPT one. the issue I am having now is finding a good MPPT controler that fits and mounts like the go power mppt ones so I don't end up having to patch a hole in the wall.

40AH on AC.. I have never looked to see what my consumption on AC is as when I use AC I am pluged in and don't care. I know in DC my 3 way in the camper uses 12A so thats kinda crazy. I tend to use propane all the time in the camper and 5th unless I am pluged in then I push the auto button. if I am dry camping in the 5th I am on gas only.

Steve

[Fisherguy]

StirCrazy wrote:


haha ya I know its only 5000 to have a 480 watt system installed from the stealership.. same set up would cost about 500 if you did it yourself.

are you sure all the watt hours are coming from your panel and not some from your generator, 400wh is about 33Ah which is above the practical maximum output for a 12V 100 watt panel but who knows not all panels are the same and you might be in a place that give you perfect solar all day or a movable mount so many factors.

I tried testing my set up to see if I could run the outside kitchen fridge on the invertwe while I was camping.. I can for about 2 days then I am down to 50% and time to shut off the inverter. thats with 480 watts of panels and 4 210AH 6V batteries. I do plan on upgrading to about 1000 watts of panels and 900AH of LFP batteries in the 5th so maybe I'll be able to do it then.

I'm not sure what you based your prices on but the previous owner had this 600 watt system installed May of last year for $1995 US.
600 watt package

Also would like to know where you can get parts for a 480 watt system for $500? I'd like to add another 200 watt panel and upgrade wiring and controller.

I'm also in BC, turned on the AC fridge for 24 hours, used 40 Amp/hrs but temps at the time were hovering around 0*C.

[Huntindog]

My Coach has an 18CF fridge. I have yet to see a 12V fridge that big. I have looked at the specs on some 8CF ones. They are remarkably similar in specs. All of them would drain a 100 AH Battle Born battery every day. So I am pretty sure an 18CF 12V would need two 100 AH batteries each day. To keep my current amount of headroom for bad events, I would need to add 3 Battle Born 100AH batteries. Then I would need to add enough solar to feed them. That is not happening. Not enough room on the roof, and my Solar controllers are maxed out.
I am not interested in going on a electricity consumption diet.
I will keep my gas fridge, thank you very much

[StirCrazy]

haha ya I know its only 5000 to have a 480 watt system installed from the stealership.. same set up would cost about 500 if you did it yourself.

are you sure all the watt hours are coming from your panel and not some from your generator, 400wh is about 33Ah which is above the practical maximum output for a 12V 100 watt panel but who knows not all panels are the same and you might be in a place that give you perfect solar all day or a movable mount so many factors.

I tried testing my set up to see if I could run the outside kitchen fridge on the invertwe while I was camping.. I can for about 2 days then I am down to 50% and time to shut off the inverter. thats with 480 watts of panels and 4 210AH 6V batteries. I do plan on upgrading to about 1000 watts of panels and 900AH of LFP batteries in the 5th so maybe I'll be able to do it then.

[valhalla360]

StirCrazy wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:

Huntindog wrote:
I have what most would consider to be a healthy solar/battery system. But if I were to add a 12V fridge to the draw, I would come up short a lot.... And adding to what already have is not so easy. It would be quite expensive, and make my roof so full that I would not have room to do maintainence up there.
Saying the additonal cost would be minimal. just shows that you do not have a clue as to what is involved. Another controller, another wire run up to the roof more fuses, more panels, more batteries more cables etc. Using what I consider to be quality stuff (to match what I already have), would be at least 3k. Probably closer to 4K

If you really have a "healthy" solar/battery system, you shouldn't have any problem running a 12v fridge.

I'm borderline with a 50w panel and a couple of basic 12v batteries. I'm light on solar but not by a large amount. Adding a 100w panel and it would cover it easily. That's a pretty minimal solar/battery system.

So far I haven't bothered as we only boondock on occasion and running the generator for an hour or two for other purposes, typically gets the batteries back up where they belong.

If you are looking at $3-4k to add an extra 100w of panels and maybe 1 extra battery, you are getting taken by your installer.

you have a pretty high opinion of the 100 watt panels, that is about 30AH per perfect solar day or more realisticly 20 to 25 for most. on a warm day a 12V fridge is going to consume up to twice that, you get buy because you run a generator like you said. and if its costing 3 to 4K to get a single panel put on run away a 350 watt panel is only 200 bucks CDN so probably 160ish US?

Steve

On a perfect summer day, I would expect somewhere around 500-600w-hr out of a 100w panel. 400w-hr would be a more typical output.

My fridge uses about 50w when running and is typically on less than 50%, so 600w-hr will cover it.

But since I said "adding 100w" I would be at 150w with a typical daily output of around 600w-hr matching pretty well with consumption.

200amp-hr of batteries is around 1200w-hr with 600w-hr usable.

This is all a very small and basic system that can handle the fridge.

So if huntingdog's "healthy" system can't handle that, it doesn't sound very healthy.

PS: I wasn't the one suggesting thousands of dollars for a small to medium size solar system.

[Huntindog]

valhalla360 wrote:

Huntindog wrote:
I have what most would consider to be a healthy solar/battery system. But if I were to add a 12V fridge to the draw, I would come up short a lot.... And adding to what already have is not so easy. It would be quite expensive, and make my roof so full that I would not have room to do maintainence up there.
Saying the additonal cost would be minimal. just shows that you do not have a clue as to what is involved. Another controller, another wire run up to the roof more fuses, more panels, more batteries more cables etc. Using what I consider to be quality stuff (to match what I already have), would be at least 3k. Probably closer to 4K

If you really have a "healthy" solar/battery system, you shouldn't have any problem running a 12v fridge.

I'm borderline with a 50w panel and a couple of basic 12v batteries. I'm light on solar but not by a large amount. Adding a 100w panel and it would cover it easily. That's a pretty minimal solar/battery system.

So far I haven't bothered as we only boondock on occasion and running the generator for an hour or two for other purposes, typically gets the batteries back up where they belong.

If you are looking at $3-4k to add an extra 100w of panels and maybe 1 extra battery, you are getting taken by your installer.

First off, I installed my system, so I KNOW what I am TALKING about.
Second and finally.... Your way of camping doesn't appeal to me anymore.
If I still camped like you, I'd probably still be tent camping

[StirCrazy]

valhalla360 wrote:

Huntindog wrote:
I have what most would consider to be a healthy solar/battery system. But if I were to add a 12V fridge to the draw, I would come up short a lot.... And adding to what already have is not so easy. It would be quite expensive, and make my roof so full that I would not have room to do maintainence up there.
Saying the additonal cost would be minimal. just shows that you do not have a clue as to what is involved. Another controller, another wire run up to the roof more fuses, more panels, more batteries more cables etc. Using what I consider to be quality stuff (to match what I already have), would be at least 3k. Probably closer to 4K

If you really have a "healthy" solar/battery system, you shouldn't have any problem running a 12v fridge.

I'm borderline with a 50w panel and a couple of basic 12v batteries. I'm light on solar but not by a large amount. Adding a 100w panel and it would cover it easily. That's a pretty minimal solar/battery system.

So far I haven't bothered as we only boondock on occasion and running the generator for an hour or two for other purposes, typically gets the batteries back up where they belong.

If you are looking at $3-4k to add an extra 100w of panels and maybe 1 extra battery, you are getting taken by your installer.

you have a pretty high opinion of the 100 watt panels, that is about 30AH per perfect solar day or more realisticly 20 to 25 for most. on a warm day a 12V fridge is going to consume up to twice that, you get buy because you run a generator like you said. and if its costing 3 to 4K to get a single panel put on run away a 350 watt panel is only 200 bucks CDN so probably 160ish US?

Steve

[valhalla360]

Huntindog wrote:
I have what most would consider to be a healthy solar/battery system. But if I were to add a 12V fridge to the draw, I would come up short a lot.... And adding to what already have is not so easy. It would be quite expensive, and make my roof so full that I would not have room to do maintainence up there.
Saying the additonal cost would be minimal. just shows that you do not have a clue as to what is involved. Another controller, another wire run up to the roof more fuses, more panels, more batteries more cables etc. Using what I consider to be quality stuff (to match what I already have), would be at least 3k. Probably closer to 4K

If you really have a "healthy" solar/battery system, you shouldn't have any problem running a 12v fridge.

I'm borderline with a 50w panel and a couple of basic 12v batteries. I'm light on solar but not by a large amount. Adding a 100w panel and it would cover it easily. That's a pretty minimal solar/battery system.

So far I haven't bothered as we only boondock on occasion and running the generator for an hour or two for other purposes, typically gets the batteries back up where they belong.

If you are looking at $3-4k to add an extra 100w of panels and maybe 1 extra battery, you are getting taken by your installer.

[dsrace]

the simply answer to the op's question is, personal application. the end users wants are what it all comes down to. some have no issues with the functionality of a conventional lp/electric rv fridge where others want the functionality of a conventional compressor fridge.

i opted for the dometic 12 v dmc4101 in our current camper. i have never had any great experiences with lp/elect rv fridges four our use in the last 5 rv's over the last 20 some years. never had one fail but on hot days they struggle to get the job done. when i say that i mean, one can leave a can of soda in the freezer overnight w/o fear of it bursting.

i ran across some test results conducted by mike at rv travel. they were the deciding factor to go with the dometic dcm 4101 and in particularly because it has 3 different power level settings where most of the other brands do not. not saying it is better or worse then other brands just saying it meets my wants better then the other brands. here is a link to that article and a pic of his test results on a single 100 ah battery. i only have 200 watts of solar and a 200 ah renogy agm battery.

https://www.rvtravel.com/rv-electricity-jam-dometic-power-usage-part-1/





if one was only opening the fridge 2 to 3 times a day then one could leave it in eco mode with only a 3.5 amp draw, when it cycled. it does not run for an hr every time it cycles either.

[theoldwizard1]

carringb wrote:
Compressor fridges have become almost standard on camper vans, because they rarely stay stationary for many days at a time. Even a short drive will restore muc hsh of the battery bank if you have something like a Transit with dual 250-amp alternators or a Sprinter with an aftermarket 2nd alternator.

The primary reason anyone would choose a a compressor refrigerator or and absorption refrigerator is that they do a much better job of keeping food cold/frozen.

The down side is batteries need to be recharged much more often than a propane tank need to be refilled.


While I agree with the first half of carrinb's post I DISAGREE with the second half ! You do not need second alternator to recharge even a moderately large battery bank. A good 40A DC-DC charger will fully recharge most battery banks after driving a couple of hours. Even if you have solar power, a small generator and charger is a good back up.