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 > Rivian Electric Truck takes on the Ike Gauntlet

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Thermoguy

Graham, WA

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Posted: 02/03/22 06:20pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

This thread goes so many places... Hard to comment on them.

But, look at your phone or PC - go back 5 or 10 years and remember what you had then. These EV's are like that technology. If you remove the battery part, you remove the distance anxiety, just like cars from the 60's or 70's when they had small gas tanks and low gas mileage. Battery technology is changing daily and will change fast with this push. It won't be long and an EV Truck like a Rivian will have a range of 500 miles or better between charges and the charge will take 15 minutes or so. Then so many arguments in this thread would be non existent. Also, like someone said, electricity at home is much cheaper than charging at a station - how many can say that about your ICE vehicle - do you even have that choice? What if you could charge your commuter EV at home over night, then go to work and sell the power back to your company - making money while doing that. That is coming - companies are working on that right now. Electricity is cheaper at night and this 2 way charging does work - you just need to know how much charge you need to get home. This also helps the grid as there is more power put into the grid during the work day removing the issues with high power consumption in the afternoon on a hot day. One issue with power is storage - now add all the EV's (assume everyone has one, like an ICE) you now have a massive power storage facility, just tap into it.

Someone mentioned the infrastructure. You now pay a gas tax that pays for roads and bridges. Too bad for the EV guys, that won't be free for much longer. Almost every state is working on a Road Usage Charge - that's right, pay by mile. From what I understand it is based on the taxes an ICE that gets 19 mpg would pay in taxes. The good news - sort of, eventually it will get to everyone. Someone driving a rig that gets less than 19 mpg will get a credit for over paying, someone who gets better than 19 mpg will have to pay an additional tax. This is coming and we will have no way to get out of it regardless of what you drive. Your modern vehicle is already tracking you just like your phone, so the data is there and being recorded now.

EV's are coming and they are getting realistic, look at the F150 and Hummer. These are not one trick pony's like Rivian, they are major car manufacturers. You've got entry level and luxury, and everything in-between. How many Nascar fans out there - how long before you are watching a race where all the cars are electric? It's going to be cool - and quiet... Other than screeching tires.

It all comes down to batteries and power recharging - what do you think the sharpest minds in the world are working on right now - making your ICE better? not... Every state in this country is working on charging stations, connected vehicle technology, and more. Just wait - It's coming fast.

FishOnOne

The Great State of Texas

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Posted: 02/03/22 06:21pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Cummins12V98 wrote:

"For his use, the 95cc+ ported smoky stinky 2-stroke work wonders"

That simply is a Barbra Streisand statement!!! Modern 2 stroke engines burn very clean. Especially if they use 100-1 AMZ/OIL 2 cycle oil like I do. Simply no smell or smoke.

But hey if your vehicle doesn't emit them it must be clean and green right??????


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free radical

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Posted: 02/03/22 06:23pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Like I said you folks in divided states need to step up.
In my neck o the woods its like this.

Electric power generation in Ontario

Ontario is the 2nd largest producer of electricity in Canada and has a generating capacity of 40 671 megawatts (MW).
In 2018, about 96% of electricity in Ontario is produced from zero-carbon emitting sources:
60% from nuclear, 26% from hydroelectricity, 7% from wind, and 2% from solar.Mar 17, 2021

FishOnOne

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Posted: 02/03/22 06:25pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Thermoguy wrote:

This thread goes so many places... Hard to comment on them.

But, look at your phone or PC - go back 5 or 10 years and remember what you had then. These EV's are like that technology. If you remove the battery part, you remove the distance anxiety, just like cars from the 60's or 70's when they had small gas tanks and low gas mileage. Battery technology is changing daily and will change fast with this push. It won't be long and an EV Truck like a Rivian will have a range of 500 miles or better between charges and the charge will take 15 minutes or so. Then so many arguments in this thread would be non existent. Also, like someone said, electricity at home is much cheaper than charging at a station - how many can say that about your ICE vehicle - do you even have that choice? What if you could charge your commuter EV at home over night, then go to work and sell the power back to your company - making money while doing that. That is coming - companies are working on that right now. Electricity is cheaper at night and this 2 way charging does work - you just need to know how much charge you need to get home. This also helps the grid as there is more power put into the grid during the work day removing the issues with high power consumption in the afternoon on a hot day. One issue with power is storage - now add all the EV's (assume everyone has one, like an ICE) you now have a massive power storage facility, just tap into it.

Someone mentioned the infrastructure. You now pay a gas tax that pays for roads and bridges. Too bad for the EV guys, that won't be free for much longer. Almost every state is working on a Road Usage Charge - that's right, pay by mile. From what I understand it is based on the taxes an ICE that gets 19 mpg would pay in taxes. The good news - sort of, eventually it will get to everyone. Someone driving a rig that gets less than 19 mpg will get a credit for over paying, someone who gets better than 19 mpg will have to pay an additional tax. This is coming and we will have no way to get out of it regardless of what you drive. Your modern vehicle is already tracking you just like your phone, so the data is there and being recorded now.

EV's are coming and they are getting realistic, look at the F150 and Hummer. These are not one trick pony's like Rivian, they are major car manufacturers. You've got entry level and luxury, and everything in-between. How many Nascar fans out there - how long before you are watching a race where all the cars are electric? It's going to be cool - and quiet... Other than screeching tires.

It all comes down to batteries and power recharging - what do you think the sharpest minds in the world are working on right now - making your ICE better? not... Every state in this country is working on charging stations, connected vehicle technology, and more. Just wait - It's coming fast.


The thing is that Ford and GM don't manufacture batteries. Again they're dependent on the battery manufacturer just like everyone else who designs products with batteries.

The power tool industry designs their battery powered tools with removable battery packs for a reason!

Grit dog

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Posted: 02/03/22 06:39pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

time2roll wrote:

specta wrote:

And how much in road taxes are the people who drive electric cars paying??

Why am I paving the way for them?
https://www.myev.com/research/interestin........ge-extra-fees-to-own-an-electric-vehicle


Using WA as an example since I know the gas tax. The EV fee = approx 300 gal worth of gas tax collected.
If I assume EV ers were already driving a 30mpg car, that is the equivalent of an average of 9000 miles per year.
Just a 5 day a week reasonable commute here = approx 15,000 mi per year plus other non commuting miles.
WA is still giving EV owners a big break on gas tax overall I’d say.


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JRscooby

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Posted: 02/04/22 04:31am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Thermoguy wrote:


Someone mentioned the infrastructure. You now pay a gas tax that pays for roads and bridges. Too bad for the EV guys, that won't be free for much longer. Almost every state is working on a Road Usage Charge - that's right, pay by mile. From what I understand it is based on the taxes an ICE that gets 19 mpg would pay in taxes. The good news - sort of, eventually it will get to everyone. Someone driving a rig that gets less than 19 mpg will get a credit for over paying, someone who gets better than 19 mpg will have to pay an additional tax. This is coming and we will have no way to get out of it regardless of what you drive. Your modern vehicle is already tracking you just like your phone, so the data is there and being recorded now.


For decades the trucking industry has had to report miles driven by state. If we did not by enough fuel in each state, we where liable to pay tax on fuel we did not buy.
I think most states already inspect cars every year or 2. Would not be hard to tell how much road tax should be paid.

Thermoguy

Graham, WA

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Posted: 02/04/22 09:02am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Grit dog wrote:

time2roll wrote:

specta wrote:

And how much in road taxes are the people who drive electric cars paying??

Why am I paving the way for them?
https://www.myev.com/research/interestin........ge-extra-fees-to-own-an-electric-vehicle


Using WA as an example since I know the gas tax. The EV fee = approx 300 gal worth of gas tax collected.
If I assume EV ers were already driving a 30mpg car, that is the equivalent of an average of 9000 miles per year.
Just a 5 day a week reasonable commute here = approx 15,000 mi per year plus other non commuting miles.
WA is still giving EV owners a big break on gas tax overall I’d say.


In WA state - House Bill 2026 will be introduced this year to discuss how to initiate a road usage charge. This is a pay by mile tax that is expected to start in 2024-25. I was part of a 1 year study where I installed a GPS tracker in my car. They could show me how many miles I drove in each state I visited. Since I drive to OR and ID often, this made sense to me and I wanted the study to see that not everyone commutes to and from the same place. The state of OR has a bid out this week that includes implementing a road usage charge as well as tolling and some other new things. This RUC is not just for EV's but all vehicles that don't pay there share of gas tax. I assume in the future we could add this to bike and whomever else is not paying there fair share of taxes. By the way, this also shows who is overpaying - like a large truck that only gets 10 mpg while towing... The study looked at how many miles you drove and made some assumptions about how much gas you use. But my vehicle gets about 19-20 mpg and the study always had me with a small credit. It also showed my out of state miles and how that would apply.

I bring this up because this is happening all over the country not just the NW. Lawmakers recognize that these new vehicles don't fit the gas tax model and they need their revenue to keep the infrastructure up to date. So, dig deeper into your pocket books...

Just to make another off topic point - the same thing happened when everyone wanted their house to be more efficient. People started installing insulation, energy efficient windows, etc. They utilities started losing money, so they raised the rates. All those companies that showed a home owner how they could pay back their upgrades by saving on energy bills, out the window because the rates went up and washed out all the savings...

time2roll

Southern California

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Posted: 02/04/22 09:11am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Thermoguy wrote:

All those companies that showed a home owner how they could pay back their upgrades by saving on energy bills, out the window because the rates went up and washed out all the savings...
And for those that did not increase efficiency they still have both inefficient high usage AND the increased cost.


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ksss

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Posted: 02/04/22 10:14am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Thermoguy wrote:

Grit dog wrote:

time2roll wrote:

specta wrote:

And how much in road taxes are the people who drive electric cars paying??

Why am I paving the way for them?
https://www.myev.com/research/interestin........ge-extra-fees-to-own-an-electric-vehicle


Using WA as an example since I know the gas tax. The EV fee = approx 300 gal worth of gas tax collected.
If I assume EV ers were already driving a 30mpg car, that is the equivalent of an average of 9000 miles per year.
Just a 5 day a week reasonable commute here = approx 15,000 mi per year plus other non commuting miles.
WA is still giving EV owners a big break on gas tax overall I’d say.


In WA state - House Bill 2026 will be introduced this year to discuss how to initiate a road usage charge. This is a pay by mile tax that is expected to start in 2024-25. I was part of a 1 year study where I installed a GPS tracker in my car. They could show me how many miles I drove in each state I visited. Since I drive to OR and ID often, this made sense to me and I wanted the study to see that not everyone commutes to and from the same place. The state of OR has a bid out this week that includes implementing a road usage charge as well as tolling and some other new things. This RUC is not just for EV's but all vehicles that don't pay there share of gas tax. I assume in the future we could add this to bike and whomever else is not paying there fair share of taxes. By the way, this also shows who is overpaying - like a large truck that only gets 10 mpg while towing... The study looked at how many miles you drove and made some assumptions about how much gas you use. But my vehicle gets about 19-20 mpg and the study always had me with a small credit. It also showed my out of state miles and how that would apply.

I bring this up because this is happening all over the country not just the NW. Lawmakers recognize that these new vehicles don't fit the gas tax model and they need their revenue to keep the infrastructure up to date. So, dig deeper into your pocket books...

Just to make another off topic point - the same thing happened when everyone wanted their house to be more efficient. People started installing insulation, energy efficient windows, etc. They utilities started losing money, so they raised the rates. All those companies that showed a home owner how they could pay back their upgrades by saving on energy bills, out the window because the rates went up and washed out all the savings...


....and above are several MORE reasons to avoid Or. and Wa.


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JRscooby

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Posted: 02/04/22 10:59am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ksss wrote:

Thermoguy wrote:

Grit dog wrote:

time2roll wrote:

specta wrote:

And how much in road taxes are the people who drive electric cars paying??

Why am I paving the way for them?
https://www.myev.com/research/interestin........ge-extra-fees-to-own-an-electric-vehicle


Using WA as an example since I know the gas tax. The EV fee = approx 300 gal worth of gas tax collected.
If I assume EV ers were already driving a 30mpg car, that is the equivalent of an average of 9000 miles per year.
Just a 5 day a week reasonable commute here = approx 15,000 mi per year plus other non commuting miles.
WA is still giving EV owners a big break on gas tax overall I’d say.


In WA state - House Bill 2026 will be introduced this year to discuss how to initiate a road usage charge. This is a pay by mile tax that is expected to start in 2024-25. I was part of a 1 year study where I installed a GPS tracker in my car. They could show me how many miles I drove in each state I visited. Since I drive to OR and ID often, this made sense to me and I wanted the study to see that not everyone commutes to and from the same place. The state of OR has a bid out this week that includes implementing a road usage charge as well as tolling and some other new things. This RUC is not just for EV's but all vehicles that don't pay there share of gas tax. I assume in the future we could add this to bike and whomever else is not paying there fair share of taxes. By the way, this also shows who is overpaying - like a large truck that only gets 10 mpg while towing... The study looked at how many miles you drove and made some assumptions about how much gas you use. But my vehicle gets about 19-20 mpg and the study always had me with a small credit. It also showed my out of state miles and how that would apply.

I bring this up because this is happening all over the country not just the NW. Lawmakers recognize that these new vehicles don't fit the gas tax model and they need their revenue to keep the infrastructure up to date. So, dig deeper into your pocket books...

Just to make another off topic point - the same thing happened when everyone wanted their house to be more efficient. People started installing insulation, energy efficient windows, etc. They utilities started losing money, so they raised the rates. All those companies that showed a home owner how they could pay back their upgrades by saving on energy bills, out the window because the rates went up and washed out all the savings...


....and above are several MORE reasons to avoid Or. and Wa.


Every body wants good roads, but OMG, some states think the people should pay for them.
The canine talks about politicians, (normally from 1 side of the aisle) "stealing" highway funds. And a relatively new bark is "EVs are not paying!" While both statements are true, the fact that the average miles driven per gallon of gas bought (and therefore $ of gas tax) has increased a bunch. The fact we are paying for less gas maybe we could pay a little more per gallon for the roads. Of course we would much rather give any extra to the oil companies.

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