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Cost of FCC 2-Way-Radio License

hedgehopper
Explorer
Explorer
Recently I bought a pair of Midland GXT1000VP4 GMRS Two-Way Radios so my wife and I can communicate with each other when she is hiking and I am at our campsite. Now I see that the box says "FCC License Required."

Apparently there is a cost of $70 just to submit an application. And I have no idea what the license costs or how long it is good.

And it seems that we can't even try out the radios to see if they are suitable for the intended purpose and return them if they are not without paying the FCC a bunch of money. HELP!

Can you clue me in as to what I got myself into, what it will cost, and how to avoid paying a bunch of $ to the FCC if we decide these won't be suitable for us?

Thanks.
35 REPLIES 35

NamMedevac_70
Explorer II
Explorer II
Now it has gone trivial and weird. HO HUM

ol_Bombero-JC
Explorer
Explorer
Wadcutter wrote:
bgum wrote:
What I was asking: His wife could carry the radio and neither transmit unless there is an emergency such as an attack by a rabbit or other aggressive animal.


Only if it's the Killer Rabbit of Caerbannog and she does not have the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch.
Tell her not to forget. Count to 3, no more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in My sight, shall snuff it.


Is it OK to "fast forward" (the count) for an encounter with a Rabbaroo -or- a Chupacabra..:)

.

PastorCharlie
Explorer
Explorer
Wadcutter wrote:
PastorCharlie wrote:

What are the limits of a "Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permit"?
Is authorized to operate any radio station which may be operated by a person holding this class of license. This permit is issued in conformity with Paragraphs 3454 and 3945 of the Radio Regulations, Geneva 1987 and is valid for the lifetime of the holder unless suspended by the FCC.


And exactly what does that have to do with the OP's question or the price of tea in China?
Do you think if the OP had a RP that they'd be asking the question they did?
The RP is not for general use. As I'm sure you must know an RP is for people doing radio repair and maintenance.



Wadcutter wrote:
bgum wrote:
What I was asking: His wife could carry the radio and neither transmit unless there is an emergency such as an attack by a rabbit or other aggressive animal.


Only if it's the Killer Rabbit of Caerbannog and she does not have the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch.
Tell her not to forget. Count to 3, no more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in My sight, shall snuff it.

Wadcutter
Explorer III
Explorer III
PastorCharlie wrote:

What are the limits of a "Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permit"?
Is authorized to operate any radio station which may be operated by a person holding this class of license. This permit is issued in conformity with Paragraphs 3454 and 3945 of the Radio Regulations, Geneva 1987 and is valid for the lifetime of the holder unless suspended by the FCC.


And exactly what does that have to do with the OP's question or the price of tea in China?
Do you think if the OP had a RP that they'd be asking the question they did?
The RP is not for general use. As I'm sure you must know an RP is for people doing radio repair and maintenance.
Camped in every state

NamMedevac_70
Explorer II
Explorer II
Happy Days. In 1965 I received an FCC license while member of local Civil Air Patrol and an emergency ambulance driver. Good for life and cost me nothing. Still have it in my possession now at 75 young. Those were the days. Cheers to the New Year.

PastorCharlie
Explorer
Explorer
Wadcutter wrote:
bgum wrote:
For HAM Elmers: Is it still true that no license is required in case of a emergency transmission?

Actually it's never been true. People misunderstand what the law actually says about emergency use on amateur radio. Here's the section people don't read and understand.
ยง 97.403 Safety of life and protection of property.
No provision of these rules prevents the use by an amateur station of any use of radio communication at its disposal to provide essential communication needs in connection with the immediate safety of human life and immediate protection of property when normal communication systems are not available.

People read thru that and overlook the highlighted part. It's talking about an amateur radio station (person) using any radio. But people respond "It says station." It means person. Amateur radio stations are not licensed by the FCC. Amateur radio operators are. You the licensed amateur radio operator are the station.
Why is that specific to amateur radio operators? Because amateur radio operators have studied and taken a test showing they have some competence in what the govt use to call "the art of radio".
Here's an example of what it means. Let's say you're a Technician Class operator. That's the very basic level of licensure in the US. Technicans are limited to the frequencies they can use in the amateur radio spectrum. An Amateur Extra Class can operate on all amateur radio frequencies.
You're a Technician (amateur radio station) and see a true emergency. Under Part 97 you (the amateur station) can use any other Amateur Radio frequency even tho you are not licensed for those frequencies.
When people say they will get a ham radio, not a license, for an emergency I always ask them "And if you are in an emergency what frequency are you going to transmit on expecting someone to answer?"
I have always gotten the same answer. "I don't know."
So you just expect to pick up a radio, transmit on some random frequency, and expect someone to be listening? Good luck with that. If you happen to get anyone to answer then buy a lottery ticket but you have a better chance of winning the lottery. Even if you by dumb luck would tune in to the VHF or UHF national calling frequency the chances of getting anyone to hear you is pretty minimal to impossible.
The handhelds, even ham radio, have a very short range. Having a ham license doesn't automatically make that ham radio VHF-UHF frequency travel any farther.
Sure, you could hit a repeater with your ham VHF-UHF. Maybe, if a repeater is in range. And if you'd happen to just get the correct frequency and off set programmed. But when I've asked those not familiar radio about such programming their eyes glass over. They don't have a clue about programming a frequency or even what an off set is. +? or -? How much?
Think you'll get a ham operator to answer you in an emergency? Consider this. In the US only .2% of the population is a licensed ham. About 700,000 hams. That's not 700,000 people sitting by their radio with it tuned to a random frequency someone may be transmitting on. Of the 700,000 licensed way fewer ever operate. They may play with it after they're first licensed then when the fun wears off the radio goes in a drawer. Even an active ham operator will not be sitting by his radio 24/7/365 listening to every frequency in the amateur bands.

The other part is what is an emergency. Most people never experience a true emergency in their life. They have situations that are uncomfortable for them to handle. They have situations they aren't equipped to deal with. But most of those are not not emergencies. A flat tire on your car is not an emergency. It's aggravating. It's a pain to deal with. But it's not an emergency. Same if you run out of gas. Making a wrong turn and getting lost is not an emergency. And for Pete's sake, if you only get a 1/2 bag of french fries at McDonald's - that is not an emergency. Having spent 42 years in LE people think a minor irritation or inconvenience is an emergency.


What are the limits of a "Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permit"?

Is authorized to operate any radio station which may be operated by a person holding this class of license. This permit is issued in conformity with Paragraphs 3454 and 3945 of the Radio Regulations, Geneva 1987 and is valid for the lifetime of the holder unless suspended by the FCC.

Michelle_S
Explorer II
Explorer II
There are much higher versions of the GMRS Radios and those the real ones that need a license, we've been using our low power hand held for years and never even knew we were suppose to have a license.
2018 Chevy 3500HD High Country Crew Cab DRW, D/A, 2016 Redwood 39MB, Dual AC, Fireplace, Sleep #Bed, Auto Sat Dish, Stack Washer/Dryer, Auto Level Sys, Disk Brakes, Onan Gen, 17.5" "H" tires, MORryde Pin & IS, Comfort Ride, Dual Awnings, Full Body Paint

austinjenna
Explorer
Explorer
Geez, just test them out and see how they work for you. I doubt you will get any good range out of them so why spend the money on a license if you are just going to return it.

I wouldn't even bother trying to find someone with a license to test them for you.

The govt doesn't have enough money to hire border agents so I think going after someone testing out their 2-way radios is not a top priority on their list.

2010 F350 CC Lariat 4x4 Short Bed
2011 Crusader 298BDS 5th Wheel
Reese 16K

valhalla360
Nomad
Nomad
bgum wrote:
You could also look for someone who has a license and ask them to test them for you. In a busy campground there should be several.


I've never seen people with them in a campground...so unlikely.

PS: Yes, the technicalities require a license but it's highly unlikely that if you get trapped under a fallen tree, that the FCC is going to aggressively pursue you for illegally using your radio to call for help.
Tammy & Mike
Ford F250 V10
2021 Gray Wolf
Gemini Catamaran 34'
Full Time spliting time between boat and RV

valhalla360
Nomad
Nomad
BurbMan wrote:
According to the product details, these radios have a 36-mile range over flat ground, so you should be able to get a couple miles of range even if it's hilly. You don't say where DW is hiking, whether around the CG or on park trails, vs. up in the mountains.


I'll give you 100-1 odds, you can't demonstrate in real life getting a remotely clear transmission at 36 miles.

Much more than a mile or two in good conditions is unlikely. Trees, hills, buildings, RVs...it might be a few hundred yards.
Tammy & Mike
Ford F250 V10
2021 Gray Wolf
Gemini Catamaran 34'
Full Time spliting time between boat and RV

hondapro
Explorer
Explorer
hedgehopper wrote:
Recently I bought a pair of Midland GXT1000VP4 GMRS Two-Way Radios so my wife and I can communicate with each other when she is hiking and I am at our campsite. Now I see that the box says "FCC License Required."

Apparently there is a cost of $70 just to submit an application. And I have no idea what the license costs or how long it is good.

And it seems that we can't even try out the radios to see if they are suitable for the intended purpose and return them if they are not without paying the FCC a bunch of money. HELP!

Can you clue me in as to what I got myself into, what it will cost, and how to avoid paying a bunch of $ to the FCC if we decide these won't be suitable for us?




Thanks.




I would try the radios to see if they are going to work for you,If they do then send for the license.

I doubt they are going to do what you want them to do, if you are in the woods you will only get about a 1/4 to a 1/2 mile range out of them
Steve
2023 Ram 3500 6.7 Cummins Turbo Diesel
2022 Keystone Sprinter 32BH
B&W Companion

Gdetrailer
Explorer III
Explorer III
bgum wrote:
What I was asking: His wife could carry the radio and neither transmit unless there is an emergency such as an attack by a rabbit or other aggressive animal.



Short answer.

No.

Long answer..

FCC emergency use provision is for a person holding a Ham license to use other Ham bands that their license may not normally allow for events like the Zombie attack to assist, coordinate, help with your local and national government..

Ham operators under dire emergencies like floods, earthquakes and other major disasters which may interrupt normal communications, can be called up to provide local and national emergency communications.

Hams can and do participate in many emergency drills which are designed to work with local and national emergency groups to ensure there is good coordination and communication at all levels.

Personal emergencies like a hangnail discovered on a leisurely walk through the scary woods, not so much.

FRS/GMRS radios, you can't do much damage.

Ham transceivers, you can cause some damage and modified Ham (out of band transmission) or commercial transceivers you can cause considerable damage by tramping on other services that may be crucial or critical to keeping folks alive (wonder why the FAA has been squawking about 5G? Yeah happens some of the radio spectrum that the cell phone companies plan to use for 5G happens to be very close to critical aviation services that help air traffic using instrumentation safely land).

FRS/GMRS transceivers are channelized to specific frequencies, within those channels some are restricted to low power levels and the FRS/GMRS will automatically dial back the output. FRS/GMRS transceivers are designed so they cannot transmit out of those specific 22 frequencies. Those frequencies have been determined by the FCC to be safe to other services which may be outside those FRS/GMRS channels..

Ham and other commercial radio transmitters are not channelized and have specific rules for power levels, transmit bandwidth and other specifications.. If you do not know what you are doing or do not understand or care about what you are doing you can interfere with someone else.

Using Ham bands requires a greater responsibility, responsibility requires some demonstration of some knowledge of the rules the FCC has required.

That is why you have licensing requirements that require you to take a test. The Tech license tests are based on basic rules of operation, basic FCC regulations. The higher Ham license class you go, more privileges you get, the more technical details are required. Absolutely no code is required any more for any of the Ham licenses.

The Ham tests are given by most Ham clubs that have enough VEs (VEs are the folks that have sufficient license class to volunteer administer the exams). The clubs typically will only ask for just enough to cover their cost for the exam materials and the cost to file with the FCC.

To get started, you can get a Tech License booklet from American Radio Relay League (ARRL) (use https://www.arrl.org/which has all the basic info you need for the Tech license plus in the back is the current test pool questions and answers.. You can practice test yourself be reading and answering those questions until you are comfortable with the question pool.. Then go to your local Ham club to take the test..

FRS/GMRS license at $70 for 10 yrs isn't all that bad, that is $7 per yr or TWO CENTS PER DAY for 10 yrs.. And no exam required, just fill out your paperwork and send in..

ktmrfs
Explorer
Explorer
Some ham operators can chime in and provide further info but my understanding is the 5 MURS channels, (151-154ish Mhz) do not require a license. So one option is MURS radio. IIRC several are limited to 2W max power.

Same range issues as GMRS and FRS.
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ktmrfs
Explorer
Explorer
BurbMan wrote:
According to the product details, these radios have a 36-mile range over flat ground, so you should be able to get a couple miles of range even if it's hilly. You don't say where DW is hiking, whether around the CG or on park trails, vs. up in the mountains.

I have a set of the lower-power FRS radios and you're lucky to get one mile of range in a forested area.

I would try the radios and see if they will work in your environment at the distances you want. If you decide to keep them, send in the $70 and get the license, if not return them and don't bother with the license.


36 miles claim is line of site from the top of a high hill with an unobstructed view of the other unit. And even that is a stretch.

BTW on flat ground line of site is less than 36 miles due to earths curvature.

Realistic range open country no obstructions, 2 miles at best
light forests/trees 1/4 to maybe 1/2 mile.
2011 Keystone Outback 295RE
2004 14' bikehauler with full living quarters
2015.5 Denali 4x4 CC/SB Duramax/Allison
2004.5 Silverado 4x4 CC/SB Duramax/Allison passed on to our Son!