Good Sam Club Open Roads Forum: Tow Vehicles: Why not diesel electric trucks?
Open Roads Forum Already a member? Login here.   If not, Register Today!  |  Help

Newest  |  Active  |  Popular  |  RVing FAQ Forum Rules  |  Forum Posting Help and Support  |  Contact  

Search:   Advanced Search

Search only in Tow Vehicles

Open Roads Forum  >  Tow Vehicles

 > Why not diesel electric trucks?

Reply to Topic  |  Subscribe  |  Print Topic  |  Post New Topic  | 
Page of 3  
Prev  |  Next
jdc1

Rescue, Ca

Senior Member

Joined: 05/30/2011

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 03/02/22 08:40pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I think the OP was thinking along the lines of a Chevy Volt or Honda Clarity. Use the EV drivetrain, and a diesel engine as a generator. Makes PERFECT sense to me.

BenK

SF BayArea

Senior Member

Joined: 04/18/2002

View Profile



Posted: 03/02/22 09:27pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

To answer the OP’s question directly…

Sure thing. Pretty easy to boot, but the solution will take much space

Take a Model 3 and say it’s battery/motor is a 50KW system

So just take a gas or diesel 50KW generator of the correct voltage and the fuel tank system to keep it going.

All the parts are readily available at most any hardware store…except for the DOT fuel tank. Junk yard would be the best source, or if money no problem…order a brand new one from any OEM

Then find the space to mount all that & the cabling/controls to manage it all

Maybe toss the battery’s to boot, but they would be needed for regenerative braking…or toss the batteries and use resisters to absorb the regenerative braking power & reject it as heat.

Hey !…maybe we’ve just solved Tusk’s Semi problem !!! [emoticon]

schlep1967 wrote:

If a single diesel electric locomotive can pull 27,000,000 pounds, why has it not been scaled down to pull 20-40,000 pounds yet?



-Ben Picture of my rig
1996 GMC SLT Suburban 3/4 ton K3500/7.4L/4:1/+150Kmiles orig owner...
1980 Chevy Silverado C10/long bed/"BUILT" 5.7L/3:73/1 ton helper springs/+329Kmiles, bought it from dad...
1998 Mazda B2500 (1/2 ton) pickup, 2nd owner...
Praise Dyno Brake equiped and all have "nose bleed" braking!
Previous trucks/offroaders: 40's Jeep restored in mid 60's / 69 DuneBuggy (approx +1K lb: VW pan/200hpCorvair: eng, cam, dual carb'w velocity stacks'n 18" runners, 4spd transaxle) made myself from ground up / 1970 Toyota FJ40 / 1973 K5 Blazer (2dr Tahoe, 1 ton axles front/rear, +255K miles when sold it)...
Sold the boat (looking for another): Trophy with twin 150's...
51 cylinders in household, what's yours?...

valhalla360

No paticular place.

Senior Member

Joined: 08/19/2009

View Profile



Good Sam RV Club Member


Posted: 03/02/22 11:23pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

jdc1 wrote:

I think the OP was thinking along the lines of a Chevy Volt or Honda Clarity. Use the EV drivetrain, and a diesel engine as a generator. Makes PERFECT sense to me.


Chevy Volt is a completely different animal and designed to serve a different purpose, even if some of the parts superficially are similar.

It uses batteries most of the time for daily commutes while being charged at night. Only on longer trips does the ICE kick in to supply power allowing for effectively unlimited range. Effectively for most people 80-95% of miles it's a battery electric vehicle and it suffers less than ideal efficiency when the motor does kick in but for most that's a good trade off.

A diesel-electric locomotive doesn't use a battery bank for propulsion. If it's moving the ICE is providing the power, just transmitted via electrons.

PS: I believe Ford has a Plug-In-Hybrid F-150 which is similar in purpose to the Volt.


Tammy & Mike
Ford F250 V10
2021 Gray Wolf
Gemini Catamaran 34'
Full Time spliting time between boat and RV


jdc1

Rescue, Ca

Senior Member

Joined: 05/30/2011

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 03/03/22 09:23am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

You wouldn't need the generator system to charge the battery 100% of the time. Both the Clarity and Volt are plug-ins. You wouldn't need a 70kW battery pack either. Half of that would suffice.
https://www.nationalpump.com.au/calculators/guide-to-choosing-generator-to-motor-size/

I don't have a clue what size generator would be required to run an electric motor equivalent to say a 454 ICE engine. But, I'm thinking a smallish diesel generator to charge a 30-40KW battery pack that propels the electric motors. Would we see a huge increase in fuel economy? Would the total drivetrain outlast those of ICE vehicles? Or, would the whole thing be too much to ask for?

ktmrfs

Portland, Oregon

Senior Member

Joined: 06/22/2005

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 03/03/22 09:31am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

jdc1 wrote:

You wouldn't need the generator system to charge the battery 100% of the time. Both the Clarity and Volt are plug-ins. You wouldn't need a 70kW battery pack either. Half of that would suffice.
https://www.nationalpump.com.au/calculators/guide-to-choosing-generator-to-motor-size/

I don't have a clue what size generator would be required to run an electric motor equivalent to say a 454 ICE engine. But, I'm thinking a smallish diesel generator to charge a 30-40KW battery pack that propels the electric motors. Would we see a huge increase in fuel economy? Would the total drivetrain outlast those of ICE vehicles? Or, would the whole thing be too much to ask for?


unless it is set up as a hybrid with the engine cycling on and off like conventional hybrids, fuel efficiency would be worse than just ICE drive. You don't get something for nothing, running any ICE engine constantly to turn a generator to run electric motors is overall going to be less fuel efficient than ICE and transmission along. Diesel electric trains/boats etc. sacrifice max fuel economy for the ability to better control and start the train etc. not for max fuel efficiency.

And even in the senerio above, in town fuel economy could improve significantly with regenerative braking, without that to recovery kenetic energy fuel economy would suffer.


2011 Keystone Outback 295RE
2004 14' bikehauler with full living quarters
2015.5 Denali 4x4 CC/SB Duramax/Allison
2004.5 Silverado 4x4 CC/SB Duramax/Allison passed on to our Son!


stsmark

Northern CA

Senior Member

Joined: 09/09/2009

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 03/03/22 02:04pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

or toss the batteries and use resisters to absorb the regenerative braking power & reject it as heat.
This is exactly what locomotives do, besides the wheel brakes on the cars.

LanceRKeys

Amarillo, TX

Senior Member

Joined: 06/04/2017

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 03/03/22 07:19pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

As soon as they made one, everyone here would complain about lack of payload.

free radical

Canada

Senior Member

Joined: 02/07/2008

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 03/03/22 07:43pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

schlep1967 wrote:

If a single diesel electric locomotive can pull 27,000,000 pounds, why has it not been scaled down to pull 20-40,000 pounds yet?

Via motors have done that long time ago
100 mpg electric hybrid truck

https://youtu.be/4XHbQLfgI6g

Why dont GM do it?
Because they are controled by Oil companies that would lose lots o $$ if all trucks got 100 mpg ! [emoticon]

rlw999

Washington State

Senior Member

Joined: 08/19/2020

View Profile



Posted: 03/03/22 09:42pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

free radical wrote:

schlep1967 wrote:

If a single diesel electric locomotive can pull 27,000,000 pounds, why has it not been scaled down to pull 20-40,000 pounds yet?

Via motors have done that long time ago
100 mpg electric hybrid truck

https://youtu.be/4XHbQLfgI6g

Why dont GM do it?
Because they are controled by Oil companies that would lose lots o $$ if all trucks got 100 mpg ! [emoticon]


That's a plug-in hybrid, you can claim any gas mileage you want if you decide that the battery range is "free". The Prius Eco is rated at 58mpg, I don't think any full size truck is going to beat that if you don't count the all-electric range.

rjstractor

Maple Valley, WA

Senior Member

Joined: 01/20/2003

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 03/04/22 10:02am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

BenK wrote:

To answer the OP’s question directly…

Sure thing. Pretty easy to boot, but the solution will take much space

Take a Model 3 and say it’s battery/motor is a 50KW system

So just take a gas or diesel 50KW generator of the correct voltage and the fuel tank system to keep it going.

All the parts are readily available at most any hardware store…except for the DOT fuel tank. Junk yard would be the best source, or if money no problem…order a brand new one from any OEM

Then find the space to mount all that & the cabling/controls to manage it all

Maybe toss the battery’s to boot, but they would be needed for regenerative braking…or toss the batteries and use resisters to absorb the regenerative braking power & reject it as heat.

Hey !…maybe we’ve just solved Tusk’s Semi problem !!! [emoticon]

schlep1967 wrote:

If a single diesel electric locomotive can pull 27,000,000 pounds, why has it not been scaled down to pull 20-40,000 pounds yet?


Sure, do all that and you'll have a truck with the acceleration and gradeability of a diesel locomotive. [emoticon] 50 KW is only 68 horsepower. That's why you would need that big battery.

Reply to Topic  |  Subscribe  |  Print Topic  |  Post New Topic  | 
Page of 3  
Prev  |  Next

Open Roads Forum  >  Tow Vehicles

 > Why not diesel electric trucks?
Search:   Advanced Search

Search only in Tow Vehicles


New posts No new posts
Closed, new posts Closed, no new posts
Moved, new posts Moved, no new posts

Adjust text size:




© 2022 CWI, Inc. © 2022 Good Sam Enterprises, LLC. All Rights Reserved.