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 > Canadian Snowbirds heading home-Antigen Rapid Tests required

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pianotuna

Regina, SK, Canada

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Posted: 03/22/22 04:23pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

silversand,

I've read the article and all links. I find the original document misleading. Woe betide us if the powers that be start making decisions based on this shoddy bit of work.


Regards, Don
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philh

Belleville MI

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Posted: 03/22/22 07:24pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

BCSnob wrote:

Correlation does not equal causation.

The numbers you want to look at are the vaccination status of those hospitalized and those who died. Overwhelmingly, hospitalization and death are higher among those not vaccinated.

Have you not been reading the news in MI; even Fox News reported higher unvaccinated people amongst those hospitalized.

Michigan hits record high COVID-19 hospitalizations, majority are unvaccinated

Article doesn't parallel studies coming out of UK or even other states. Even in MI, I have a friend that's an ER nurse, and she has stated that a high percentage of ER patients are jabbed.

BCSnob

Middletown, MD

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Posted: 03/22/22 08:24pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

States with higher hospitalization rates in unvaccinated (based upon state health dept websites that list hospitalization by vaccination status).
WA
AZ
MN
NY
WI
TX
OR
PA
CA
KY
NE
OK
UT
MA

I’m sure I could find more states with data that parallel the info in the MI news article, but if you’re not going to believe the data linked above I’m just wasting my time.

Btw, the vaccination rate in the UK for >12 is ~90%. Saying most of the people in the hospital for Covid are vaccinated is like saying most of the people in UK hospitals are UK citizens. The best number is the hospitalization rate:

vaccinated that are hospitalized divided by total number vaccinated

Compared to

Unvaccinated that are hospitalized divided by total unvaccinated

* This post was edited 03/22/22 08:44pm by BCSnob *

silversand

Montreal

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Posted: 03/23/22 04:58am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Quote:

Philh wrote: "the hospitalization rate almost parallels the vaccination rate, indicating the jab is NOT stopping being from getting hospitalized."


.....OK guys, time out [emoticon]

....when you look at Covid hospitalization studies, you always have to differentiate between those hospitalized as a direct result of Covid (and any resulting mortalities), and those hospitalized because of some unrelated affliction (and any resulting mortalities from unrelated affliction, or the additive affect of underlying Covid), and Covid is discovered (NAAS or PCR) as incidental.

If Covid mortalities don't include the above, then they can't inform.

Now, changing trajectory:

Again, " in a world where we know that we can never possibly vaccinate more than ~68 ~ 79% of the entire 8 -ish billion world inhabitants, we will simply have to "make due" with a world where 1 or 2 billion inhabitants will never ever be vaccinated against Covid. So, why not just confer "vaccination-equivalent" status on those 1~2 billion people?"

Vaccination although wonderful, is a global distribution failure. The "virus" outperformed global vaccination endeavors. We have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that 1 billion + of the World's population will NEVER receive a Covid vaccination, or never achieve full vaccination status. So, likely all of this population will contract Covid forthwith; do we confer immune status on this naturally immune cohort? No burrying heads in the sand here. What are your thoughts?

* This post was last edited 03/23/22 05:20am by silversand *   View edit history


Silver
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BCSnob

Middletown, MD

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Posted: 03/23/22 07:06am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Unlike vaccination where we have data demonstrating effectiveness against each variant for each vaccine and number of doses and time since these doses which can be used to assess immunity; there is very little data on the effectiveness of past infections based upon disease severity, variant which caused the infection, and time since infection to assess immunity.

What data has been published on natural immunity indicates that disease severity (much like vaccine dose and number of doses) impacts the level and duration of immunity.

Link

Until someone comes up with a means to subcategorize the level of acquired immunity based upon disease severity we (society) run the risk of conferring immune status to those who are at risk of reinfection much like those who are partially vaccinated.

pianotuna

Regina, SK, Canada

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Posted: 03/23/22 09:29am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

b.2 is now 1/3 of all cases in USA. It is 40% more infective than b.1

Take as many precautions as you can.

* This post was edited 03/23/22 09:36am by pianotuna *

Canuck Travellers

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Posted: 03/23/22 03:40pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Just in from our local paper here in New Brunswick ie Brunswick News.

"All entering Canada are required after April 1st to wear a mask in public venues for 14 days."

I can't Google this as nothing comes up and the paper blocks it from forwarding or copying by copy protected text.

And there's penalties for not adhering to this but sorta boggles the mind how it will be enforced, oh well just another "control mechanism"

Oh incidentally if you get COVID-19 you can return to work for the Federal or Provincial Government in Canada after self isolating for five (5) days...can this protocol get any more ridiculous?
14 days...control, control, control when will Canadians wake up, if this was the USA there would be riots! No way this kind of control would be even tried in the USA the pushback would be horrendous!

* This post was last edited 03/23/22 04:51pm by Canuck Travellers *   View edit history


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moisheh

North America

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Posted: 03/24/22 09:25am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Wow. here it is in a paper issued a few days ago. So is Trudeau going to wander the streets and verify you are a traveler?
or 14 days following entry into Canada, you and any unvaccinated children under the age of 12 who travelled with you must:

maintain a list of the names and contact information of each person with whom you came into close contact and a list of locations visited
wear a well-constructed, well-fitting mask in public settings
keep a copy of the following and provide them on request to the Government of Canada or government of the province or territory where you are located, or to the local public health authority:
all COVID-19 pre-arrival test results
all on-arrival COVID-19 test results, including results from random testing and results for children under 12 and
proof of vaccine
monitor for signs and symptoms of COVID-19
if you start showing signs and symptoms, or receive a positive test result for COVID-19 before the expiry of the 14 day period, you must immediately:
report within 24 hours to the Public Health Agency of Canada by calling 1-833-641-0343 (the official will provide you with additional details and instructions)
isolate for an additional 10 days, even if your province or territory has a shorter isolation period
contact the appropriate public health authority
In addition, if:

the fully vaccinated parent, guardian, or tutor develops signs or symptoms, or receives a positive result, the parent, guardian, or tutor and the child must isolate for 10 days
you travelled with a person who develops signs and symptoms of COVID-19, or receives a positive result for any type of test before the expiry of the 14-day period, you and the child must quarantine for 14 days starting the day you or your child were most recently exposed to the other person

silversand

Montreal

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Posted: 03/25/22 05:43am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

As everyone here knows, I am a HUGE proponent of vaccination. Let this be said right up front.

With that being said, and Omicron BA.2 being pretty well in the top 2 most contagious pathogens known to man, it is absurd and ludicrous to believe, or let anyone convince you that mask wearing (and I am talking about N-95 NIOSH masks, not Korean masks) will protect you against ingesting via breathing BA.2. Unless you have a professional fit your N-95 perfectly, you will be inhaling large quantities of atmosphere around the nose area. Even worse, IF you have not shaved, face stubble and any genre of beard will render the mask fitment useless.

This is the big one: ....does anyone actually believe that with Omicron BA.2's level of contagion at up to 12 persons per virus shedder, that they will have a chance in Hades in ever identifying their source of contagion? I highly doubt it! You could have contracted it from someone walking by you on the street, someone who vacated an elevator you entered 10 minutes ago, someone who walked by you in an underground parking garage, any one of a MILLION scenarios while you are even wearing your improperly fitted mask, or, while you were outdoors near 1 single infected person.

This is the big two: though the vaccination (IF you have had 3 shots!) is effective in preventing symptomatic Covid "most of the time" but over a VERY short period of 4.5 to 6 months, 3 shots will NOT prevent you from actually contracting BA.2. 4 boosters has almost no measurable efficacy past a handful of weeks (see the recent article on 4th booster in Nature). I don't know why our politicians can't seem to understand that, and, everything above? If anyone thinks that another Covid vaccination campaign will gain traction, those politicians are sorely wrong. Another global Covid vaccination campaign will fail miserably. That's too bad, because we WILL see another pandemic from maybe anothr specie of SARS, maybe something unrelated and worse; and the next pandemic may be many, many, many fold more deadly than Covid was; like not 15~18 million global mortalities, but maybe half a billion. And, because the sum total global governments failed to be sensible about the house arrest of their citizenry and failed miserable to fund their own health care systems over the past decades, no, half Century, the latency caused by rejection of some yet undeveloped vaccine for the next global pandemic campaign, may condemn the World.

Sars-cov-2 won folks. Get over it. Death rates from BA.2 are so low, they are now blended with the hundreds of other mortality statistics that tend to kill off humans. IF you are vulnerable, YOU make arrangements for home delivery of everything. Don't go out period. Let the rest of less vulnerable humanity go back to "normal". Set up virus surveillance not just in Denmark and the UK, but in every country on Earth, pulling samples from the hospitalized cohort. At least better surveillance will warn of some new pathogen coming at us in the future.

That is about all I have to say about Covid, as Covid pandemic enters its death throes, to likely be heaped upon the pile of endemic virus history over the next year or two.

BCSnob

Middletown, MD

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Posted: 03/25/22 07:04am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

A published, peer reviewed study that demonstrated the benefits of facial coverings (not specific to professionally fitted N95 respirators) at reducing the odds of becoming infected after exposure to an infected person.

Predictors of Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2 Infection Following High-Risk Exposure
Clinical Infectious Diseases, 2021

Quote:

Benefits of mask usage were greatest among unvaccinated and partially-vaccinated participants, and in interactions involving non-household contacts or interactions occurring without physical contact.


I view mask use in the same light as social distancing, I use the mask in crowded indoor locations when there is elevated community transmission. Like vaccines or social distancing, it is not 100% effective, but it reduces the risk of infection and can be additive to the other protections.

As the pandemic has continued, science has progressed and become more nuanced about immunity to this evolving virus. Immunity is no longer viewed solely by the measured level of antibodies circulating in the body but now also includes the breadth of circulating antibodies (their targets: specific parts of the RBD, spike, nucleocapsid, and their susceptibility to genetic variation in the virus) and the breadth of antibodies produced by memory cells. Studies have found that repeated exposure to the virus (or parts of the virus in the form of vaccines) increases the breadth of antibodies and breadth of memory cells and therefore future protection to new genetic variants. While circulating antibody levels (from infection or vaccination) may wane, immunity may continue.

It is difficult to know if the virus is really done with us as long as it continues to evolve within those it continues to infect and within the animals we are now learning it also infects (example: white-tailed deer). I for one will enjoy this time of much lower community transmission (where I live) but I will continue to monitor it and be ready to adjust my behaviors to limit my risk of exposure and then potential transmission to higher risk family and friends.

* This post was edited 03/25/22 07:39am by BCSnob *

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