Desert Captain
Payson
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Joined: 02/19/2011
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pianotuna wrote:Desert Captain wrote:
Greater efficiency is at your fingertips when you simply engage the Tow Haul mode. The weight of any E-450 is sufficient to justify the use of TH even if you are not towing... you are hauling 14,500#. Now put the money you just saved into a fund for any unforeseen repairs that may be coming down the road.
As always... Opinions and YMMV.
![[emoticon]](https://forums.goodsamclub.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/cool.gif "cool")
Tow Haul Mode activated causes RPM to go up considerably. I don't see how that could save fuel. But do enlighten me please.
I "pay" myself mileage so there is always a ready repair fund.
Fully loaded (all tanks full and 2 folks with their belongings) I come in at 13750 lbs.
Try rereading my post... I did NOT say using Tow Haul will improve your mileage. ![[emoticon]](https://forums.goodsamclub.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/doh.gif "doh") That is not its function but in the course of making your drive train more efficient you will in some circumstances actually get better mileage than without it.
Amount other things using TH reduces your trans fluid temperatures significantly contributing to overall efficiency and again, sometimes better mileage. If you are not using TH you are slowly but surely cooking your transmission needlessly.
Since everyone loads differently it only makes sense to use the GVWR of the E-450 {14,500#} for the purposes of this discussion. Most E-450 class C's and virtually all of them over 30 run very close, if not over that number due to their inherent lack of payload. Oh and I do have to ask, why one earth would you run "fully loaded {all tanks full...} ??? Do you enjoy hauling full black and grey tanks? ![[emoticon]](https://forums.goodsamclub.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/scratchead.gif "scratchead")
* This post was
edited 03/21/22 03:36pm by Desert Captain *
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pianotuna
Regina, SK, Canada
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Joined: 12/18/2004
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Desert Captain wrote:
Try rereading my post... I did NOT say using Tow Haul will improve your mileage. That is not its function but in the course of making your drive train more efficient you will in some circumstances actually get better mileage than without it.
Amount other things using TH reduces your trans fluid temperatures significantly contributing to overall efficiency and again, sometimes better mileage. If you are not using TH you are slowly but surely cooking your transmission needlessly.
Since everyone loads differently it only makes sense to use the GVWR of the E-450 {14,500#} for the purposes of this discussion. Most E-450 class C's and virtually all of them over 30 run very close, if not over that number due to their inherent lack of payload. Oh and I do have to ask, why one earth would you run "fully loaded {all tanks full...} ??? Do you enjoy hauling full black and grey tanks?
I did that test to find out if I was overloading the Driver's side. And I was--so I changed rims to a taller tire which more load rating. I don't know why--but the battery bank, water tank, and waste tanks are ALL on the drivers side. My battery bank at the time was 875 amp-hours. The driver's side duals were the over load. I also had a cage created that favors the passengers side for the generator. Every little bit helps.
Of course for NORMAL use I do not have the water, grey, and black full.
My terrain is mostly prairies. I accelerate slowly.
Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, 556 amp-hours of Telcom jars, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.
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Retired JSO
North Georgia Mountains
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Joined: 01/28/2009
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Waste of money.
If chipping a vehicle would give you better mileage without causing internal engine and transmission reliability, don’t you think the vehicle manufacturers would be doing that?
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Jack_Diane_Freedom
Burlington Ontario Canada
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Joined: 05/11/2005
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Not going to save anything if you end up having to run premium fuel.
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dodge guy
Bartlett IL
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Joined: 03/23/2004
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I had a 5 star tune on my 02 V-10 Excursion towing a 35ft 9300lb TT. I gained .5 mpg towing, no other change other than the tune. And yes, despite the negative people, the shift programming for has in them is less than awful! 5 star did their homework and it shifts the way it should have from the beginning. It does give a bit more power, but that’s not why I got it. It never really held OD even in the slightest headwind. After it took a lot to get it to kick down into 3rd.
Best mod I did to the V-10 other than the 3.73-4.30 swap.
And for those wondering, sometimes lugging an engine (lower rpm) it will use more fuel than running it at a higher rpm which is more efficient. It’s a fine balance of speed, rpm, and load.
Wife Kim
Son Brandon 17yrs
Daughter Marissa 16yrs
Dog Bailey
12 Forest River Georgetown 350TS Hellwig sway bars, BlueOx TrueCenter stabilizer
13 Ford Explorer Roadmaster Stowmaster 5000, VIP Tow>
A bad day camping is
better than a good day at work!
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BurbMan
Indianapolis, IN
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Joined: 09/20/2001
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Gdetrailer wrote:Leave it stock, don't mess with it, you have a good engine and 8-10 MPG in the size and weight class that vehicle is in is as good as it gets.
Agree 100% here. Engine tuning is a balance of performance, efficiency and longevity. It's a zero sum game, you can't improve one without adversely affecting the other two.
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dodge guy
Bartlett IL
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BurbMan wrote:Gdetrailer wrote:Leave it stock, don't mess with it, you have a good engine and 8-10 MPG in the size and weight class that vehicle is in is as good as it gets.
Agree 100% here. Engine tuning is a balance of performance, efficiency and longevity. It's a zero sum game, you can't improve one without adversely affecting the other two.
I have to disagree on that. A good tuning company balances all of that. Plenty of tuned gas motors doing just fine. Now tuning a Diesel is a different matter!
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Gdetrailer
PA
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Joined: 01/05/2007
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dodge guy wrote:BurbMan wrote:Gdetrailer wrote:Leave it stock, don't mess with it, you have a good engine and 8-10 MPG in the size and weight class that vehicle is in is as good as it gets.
Agree 100% here. Engine tuning is a balance of performance, efficiency and longevity. It's a zero sum game, you can't improve one without adversely affecting the other two.
I have to disagree on that. A good tuning company balances all of that. Plenty of tuned gas motors doing just fine. Now tuning a Diesel is a different matter!
![[emoticon]](https://forums.goodsamclub.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/rolleyes.gif "rolleyes")
Then there is the ones who don't believe that the OEM has their "best interest" at heart and believe their "rights" to "roll smoke" have be trampled on..
OEMs like Ford, take a lot more than HP/TQ and mileage into account when they design, build and execute the design. That means a fine balancing act between HP/TQ/EMISSIONS and longevity.
Once you decide that you know all and more than the OEM knows and hack and rewrite the code you have now tossed all caution to the side and one or more items will end up being thrown into the waste can..
For what it is worth, Ford did a good job with the design of the V10, it can be capable of more HP/TQ, but consider a few things.
Once you move to the Super Duty platforms Ford does intentionally "derate" the engines and drive train. It is done for a purpose and not to be a fun buzz kill.
The idea to derate is to save and protect the engine and drive train under industrial continuous heavy duty use. In other words the duty cycle increases as you derate.
If I remember correctly Ford did an additional derate to F and E450 and heavier platforms and that is due to the commercial customer use aspects of those platforms in order to get the highest longevity with the least breakdowns. The engineers are not stupid..
Tuners remove the derating which in turn does indeed reduce the duty cycles, reducing it's over all life if you continually flog it..
If you tune it, it isn't like your gonna drive it like a little old lady who only drove it to church on Sundays.. No, your gonna stomp on it, a lot.
Ford did a lot of homework on the modular series and other than a few tarnishes like skimping on the sparkplug threads and a few yrs of a weak oil pump they are decent engines with very long service lives.. I had a 2003 5.4 for 16 yrs, when I sold it, there was just under 250,000 miles on the engine. That engine purred like a kitten all of it's life. Oil changes, one plug change and one set of COPs was all it needed while I owned it. Never used a drop of oil, never had cooling issues..
I just leave things bone stock and things tend to be very reliable for me.
Contrast that to my Dad who was constantly trying every little moonshiners tricks under the sun to make more power and get better mileage while towing.. Very often the hop up mods left him stranded somewhere along the road.. Higher compression (shaved heads, decked the block, different pistons), more aggressive cams, over advancing the stock timing settings.. Multiple times took the ends right off of sparkplugs, multiple under hood fires, burned up wiring harnesses and plug wires, boil overs and the worst was shattered holes right through 6 out of 8 pistons 10 hrs from home with a 5th wheel in tow..
Leave the tuners to the teeny boppers trying to prove they are better on main street and the midlife crisis guys trying to relive their lost youth again..
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Desert Captain
Payson
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"Then there is the ones who don't believe that the OEM has their "best interest" at heart and believe their "rights" to "roll smoke" have be trampled on..
OEMs like Ford, take a lot more than HP/TQ and mileage into account when they design, build and execute the design. That means a fine balancing act between HP/TQ/EMISSIONS and longevity.
Once you decide that you know all and more than the OEM knows and hack and rewrite the code you have now tossed all caution to the side and one or more items will end up being thrown into the waste can..
For what it is worth, Ford did a good job with the design of the V10, it can be capable of more HP/TQ, but consider a few things.
Once you move to the Super Duty platforms Ford does intentionally "derate" the engines and drive train. It is done for a purpose and not to be a fun buzz kill.
The idea to derate is to save and protect the engine and drive train under industrial continuous heavy duty use. In other words the duty cycle increases as you derate.
If I remember correctly Ford did an additional derate to F and E450 and heavier platforms and that is due to the commercial customer use aspects of those platforms in order to get the highest longevity with the least breakdowns. The engineers are not stupid..
Tuners remove the derating which in turn does indeed reduce the duty cycles, reducing it's over all life if you continually flog it..
If you tune it, it isn't like your gonna drive it like a little old lady who only drove it to church on Sundays.. No, your gonna stomp on it, a lot.
Ford did a lot of homework on the modular series and other than a few tarnishes like skimping on the sparkplug threads and a few yrs of a weak oil pump they are decent engines with very long service lives.. I had a 2003 5.4 for 16 yrs, when I sold it, there was just under 250,000 miles on the engine. That engine purred like a kitten all of it's life. Oil changes, one plug change and one set of COPs was all it needed while I owned it. Never used a drop of oil, never had cooling issues..
I just leave things bone stock and things tend to be very reliable for me.
Contrast that to my Dad who was constantly trying every little moonshiners tricks under the sun to make more power and get better mileage while towing.. Very often the hop up mods left him stranded somewhere along the road.. Higher compression (shaved heads, decked the block, different pistons), more aggressive cams, over advancing the stock timing settings.. Multiple times took the ends right off of sparkplugs, multiple under hood fires, burned up wiring harnesses and plug wires, boil overs and the worst was shattered holes right through 6 out of 8 pistons 10 hrs from home with a 5th wheel in tow..
Leave the tuners to the teeny boppers trying to prove they are better on main street and the midlife crisis guys trying to relive their lost youth again.. "
Wow, what a well written spot on post...Thank You!
The after market industry has some of the best advertising on earth... but the truth all too often gets lost in the BS. From suspension modifications that could be avoided with proper alignment and psi to chips and tuners promising to turn your Motorhomne into a high performance race car the nonsense goes on and on.
The placebo effect feeds their marketing as they know that if you spend several thousand dollars on improvements that are at best measured subjectively you will believe they work.
Then it's off to the RV Forums to tout the huge improvements you were able to gain by merely writing a check.
Sorry if I seem a tad cynical but leaving them stock has been working real well for 50+ years as I have yet to meet any individual who knows more than the engineers who built the vehicle. Now when it comes to creature comfort accessories that is a different matter altogether.
As always... opinions and YMMV
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dodge guy
Bartlett IL
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Also the factory tune is made for different people and different uses and loads. What is good for one driver and truck is awful for the next person. A tune tailors a specific vehicle to its use and driver.
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