For those towing with Teslas. Super charger tips. Thanks

[Reisender]

Hi Folks. For those that are towing with or plan on towing with a Tesla, here is a little info on charging at Superchargers that don't have a trailer spot at the end of the row or a pull thru. Still very common and pull thrus and trailer spots have only started to show up in Superchargers that have been built in the last couple years, and sometimes even on new ones like the one in our home town.

So count on using 3 spots. It looks like 4 spots here but that is because someone was parked at the end of the row and I didn't want to crowd them for the sake of a picture.

Anyway. This happens reasonably often. If the supercharger is quiet then this is acceptable. If not expect to unhook the trailer which really isn't that big of a deal. Tesla is building more and more stalls suited for small trailers but as more and more people tow with their Teslas they are going to need a lot more.

Tip. You don't have to get too close to the curb as you swing in. A couple feet is fine. The cable easily reaches that far and you can pull far enough ahead to not impinge on the 4th spot (like I am doing in this picture). 🙂

Obviously charging at the campground is still the easiest method, but we do lots of dry camping and this is still a reality sometimes. The joys of being a pioneer.

Safe travels all.

JMHO. Cheers.

[afidel]

My 5.3 towing a 6k dry, 7-7.5k loaded trailer has averaged 8.5mpg overall. Best tank was 10.1, worst 7.1. The 7.1 was towing 68mph through WV, learned I need to slow down with the full sized trailer, my previous 7' wide, 3,600 pound and shorter trailer I got 11.1 average at 68 even in the mountains.

[Gdetrailer]

Found a "real world" EV truck towing comparison test..

Featuring F150 lightning (EV) towing vs GMC Sierra (Gas) towing

HERE

The video is a good real world comparison but does have several shameless plugs for their youtube channel sponsors you can forward through.

Cliffs notes version of the video for those that don't wish to spend 24 minutes watching the video..

Setup-

Both towing exact same 6K lb trailer at the same time on same route, speeds and conditions.

Both battery and fuel tank are filled to 100%

GMC has 24 gallon tank

Lightning 282 miles non towing range with full charge, display estimated 160 miles towing the trailer selected with full charge.

Ultimately had to cut trip severely short due to less range than originally estimated and no charging stations close enough on their route that they could make it to and had to turn around and backtrack to the nearest charger they could find.

Vehicle power (acceleration performance) dropped to 90% at 9% battery left. Drove only 85.9 miles from 100% to 9% battery.

Took 45 minutes to recharge from 9% to 75% or so battery charge (but hey, they guy did get to eat a takeout “chicken dinner”in their F150 Lightning).. :R

GMC drove 155.8 mile 65 miles remaining using $5.39 Premium fuel per gallon took 17.371 gallons at $93.79, total fill up took only a few minutes. 8.9 MPG was the GMCs trip mileage and was able to complete the full trip without needing to refill (wow, that thing is a fuel hog for a ½ ton, I just averaged 10.1 MPG overall on a 1600 mile round trip towing a TT loaded to 6500 lbs with my 2020 F250 with 6.2 engine).

Lightning charge cost $27 for the first charge, had to stop on the way back to recharge again since they did not wait for a 100% charge. They did not disclose total electric cost at the end of the video, but since they had to stop and recharge on the way back one can assume they spent close to another $27 for a total trip cost of $72.90 and spent a whopping 1.5 hrs sitting around waiting for the battery to charge.

[Gdetrailer]

Ran across an interesting video which helps explain some of the differences in EV vs ICE when it comes to distance and why EV isn't quite there for hard core heavy towing.

HERE (note: does have some shameless "commercial plugs" for some hair growth products you can FF over).

As of right now, Fords Lightning F150 EPA range without towing is 230 miles with standard battery and 300 miles with extended range battery. Those numbers come from EPA testing, do not include towing but do include 1,000 lbs "payload". Top speed during the testing is 60 MPH and combines with a lot of low speed stop and go traffic until the vehicle can no longer move (not exactly realistic expectation as one would hope drivers are smarter than allowing themselves to run out of charge in the middle of no where).

Towing a standard 7K lb or 10K lb trailer I suspect it would be very doubtful you would get even 100 miles per full charge with standard battery and maybe stretch it to 125 miles with extended range battery with the F150 Lightning..

The mathematical numbers in the video shows the main problem with EV is still the battery energy storage density and weight is not as good as liquid fuels and that is where there still needs a lot of improvement.

Even though ICE is technically less energy efficient, the biggest plus is the energy density of liquid fuels is very high per pound and size compared to Lithium batteries. Refueling liquid fuels to a 100% full tank is very quick (full range restored) compared to recharging a battery to 80%-90% (at a reduced range) takes more time to complete.

Batteries have improved and for general use can be useful but for myself, just not there yet.

[Reisender]

spoon059 wrote:

Reisender wrote:
And in answer to your question, a typical supercharger stop for us is 15 minutes.

Safe travels.

John

That is impressive! 15 minutes gives you a full charge? That is slower than fueling up, but assuming you don't have to wait in line for other poeple to fill up, I would say 15 minutes is pretty reasonable when towing.

Yah it’s fine. But we never arrive empty so that’s not a full charge. I tend to drive on the top 3/4 of my “tank”. I have never charged from empty so not sure how long that would take. And most EVers don’t charge the last 5 or so percent of the battery because it’s slow. We do that when charging overnight or sometimes during a lunch stop. The length And frequency of our charge stop is more dictated by when we need to pee or when the chihuahua needs a walk. Usually every couple hours or so, wether we are charging or not. It’s just how we roll.

[spoon059]

Reisender wrote:
And in answer to your question, a typical supercharger stop for us is 15 minutes.

Safe travels.

John

That is impressive! 15 minutes gives you a full charge? That is slower than fueling up, but assuming you don't have to wait in line for other poeple to fill up, I would say 15 minutes is pretty reasonable when towing.

[Reisender]

spoon059 wrote:
OP, how long does it take you to go from empty to full charge? On our last trip we drove 605 miles home in one day. The beauty of diesel fuel is it only took one fill up to get home, which took a total of 15 minutes to get off the highway, fuel up, let the kids go to the bathroom, walk the dogs, make some sandwiches and get back on the highway.

Getting 150 miles per full charge would require starting full and then at least 3 stops. Driving up I95 on the east coast, you go through lots of rural areas and I can't image there are too many Tesla charging docks between larger towns.

Yah for sure. Diesel rules in situation like that. We drove a diesel for years. If you need to do that kind of distance then diesel will be king for a long time.

Sorry I’m not familiar with charging infrastructure in that part of the continent. We are in BC and infrastructure is pretty good.

A long day on the road for us is 4 hours and most days are shorter. We are usually on the road by 11 and off by 1 or 2 in the afternoon. And in answer to your question, a typical supercharger stop for us is 15 minutes.

Safe travels.

John

[spoon059]

OP, how long does it take you to go from empty to full charge? On our last trip we drove 605 miles home in one day. The beauty of diesel fuel is it only took one fill up to get home, which took a total of 15 minutes to get off the highway, fuel up, let the kids go to the bathroom, walk the dogs, make some sandwiches and get back on the highway.

Getting 150 miles per full charge would require starting full and then at least 3 stops. Driving up I95 on the east coast, you go through lots of rural areas and I can't image there are too many Tesla charging docks between larger towns.

[Reisender]

JRscooby wrote:
I think if I owned the charge station I would set up a drive so you could park parallel on the other side so a trailer did not need to block. Even if parked on gravel.

For sure. I don't want to give the impression that they are all like this. But there are still many like this and with the push for more stations I think a lot of these will stay the way they are.

Here are a few pics of other stations both Tesla and public that are more compatible with trailer towing.

This is a trailer slot. The charger has been repositioned so that the Tesla drives in nose first. These are getting reasonably common. Usually one at each end of the line or sometimes just one.



These drivethru's still end up using two spots but that happens at gas pumps too.



Another version of the drive thru.



These are ideal. This is a public station. We have used this one. And there is enough space to the next charger for about a 25 foot trailer.



Another pull thru.



Unfortunately this is common where we are.



Anyway. You get the idea. Us early adapters have to figure it out. But with all the EV half tons hitting the street I think the planners are starting to take notice as we are noticing things improving...slowly. We can only hope. 🙂

Safe travels

[JRscooby]

I think if I owned the charge station I would set up a drive so you could park parallel on the other side so a trailer did not need to block. Even if parked on gravel.

[Reisender]

@Caveman.

So, the answer is yes. Tesla allows for a 14 foot extension . They don’t sell them but another company does. We have bought from them before. I seem to recall they are around 400 bucks. Built to handle 250 amps 400 volts etc. Tesla actually uses them when charging semi prototypes at Superchargers.

It’s not something we would buy right now as some Superchargers have one or two trailer spots and some have pull thrus. We’ll see how it goes for the summer and decide from there.

Safe travels.

[Caveman_Charlie]

Reisender wrote:
Hi Folks. For those that are towing with or plan on towing with a Tesla, here is a little info on charging at Superchargers that don't have a trailer spot at the end of the row or a pull thru. Still very common and pull thrus and trailer spots have only started to show up in Superchargers that have been built in the last couple years, and sometimes even on new ones like the one in our home town.

So count on using 3 spots. It looks like 4 spots here but that is because someone was parked at the end of the row and I didn't want to crowd them for the sake of a picture.

Anyway. This happens reasonably often. If the supercharger is quiet then this is acceptable. If not expect to unhook the trailer which really isn't that big of a deal. Tesla is building more and more stalls suited for small trailers but as more and more people tow with their Teslas they are going to need a lot more.

Tip. You don't have to get too close to the curb as you swing in. A couple feet is fine. The cable easily reaches that far and you can pull far enough ahead to not impinge on the 4th spot (like I am doing in this picture). 🙂

Obviously charging at the campground is still the easiest method, but we do lots of dry camping and this is still a reality sometimes. The joys of being a pioneer.

Safe travels all.

JMHO. Cheers.

Could you buy, or rig up, some sort of extension cord for the Tesla so that you could get further ahead and free up one or more changing stations ? I know that you would loose some power though a longer cord and it might take a few more minutes to charge up but, if you not in a hurry could it be done ??

[Reisender]

Gdetrailer wrote:

Reisender wrote:


It sounds like you have the perfect tow vehicle for your needs. And that is an impressive range. Even four hours is a stretch for us. We did a 1740 kilometre great circle with our motorhome a few years back. It took us 7 weeks. LOL. :). I think our longest day on the road was an hour and half. :).

We all travel differently of course and I get it, some of those favorite spots are sometimes far away.

Stay safe on the road.

John.

Love the range we get with our setup.

Did forget to mention for comparisons sake EVs when charging are not subject to Sate and Federal "gas taxes" which varies from state to state. In my state that is $.80 per gallon of gas, Diesel is even higher.

So to level out the playing field by stripping off the gas tax I would now be at $.32 per mile..

The states are slowly catching up, some now are planning on slapping a surcharge to the annual registration.. In my state they have been bantering the idea of dropping the fuel tax and hitting us all over the head with additional registration AND mileage tax which in the end will result in higher costs for the motorists..

One of my biggest concerns is what happens to everyone's electric bill costs.. Traditionally most electric companies billing methods in the states were designed to encourage LESS power usage.. Use more KWhrs of energy and the rates skyrocket in surcharges which are percentage based.. I can easy see a $5 difference in my electric bill just by using a couple extra Kwhrs..

Example, Jan this yr we used 1,113 Kwhrs at $116, March bill we used 1,037 Kwhrs at $111. A $5 difference for 76 Kwhr.. The actual electric generation charge we buy at is $.05 per Kwhr and for $76 Kwhr more we should have paid only $3.80.. On edit.. I will note that our generation rate does vary a bit month to month and is not fixed, and the data I have on my spreadsheet for quick reference doesn't include that change. All of the taxes and other charges are percentage based and those are not linear..

Thanks for an interesting post. Always interesting to see how things are done in other places. We found when we bought our first EV 7 years ago our power bill went up about 20 to 30 bucks depending on the time of year. Back then our average commute was around 40 to 55 kilometres. We have since retired and now it’s less although we travel more on road trips so it’s probably about the same.

At least up here, in a typical household, a clothes dryer has a greater monthly consumption than an electric vehicle. And air conditioning is much MUCH higher during the summer. I’m sure the grid will have to go thru some changes over the next 20 to 30 years but it all happens pretty slow. I know BC hydro has info on their website and it pretty much indicates that we already have the capacity now. And we have some pretty big hydro projects coming on line over the next 3 to 10 years in this country.

I’m sure they’ll figure it out. It’s definitely beyond my pay grade. :).

Thanks again.

Cheers.

John.

[Gdetrailer]

Reisender wrote:


It sounds like you have the perfect tow vehicle for your needs. And that is an impressive range. Even four hours is a stretch for us. We did a 1740 kilometre great circle with our motorhome a few years back. It took us 7 weeks. LOL. :). I think our longest day on the road was an hour and half. :).

We all travel differently of course and I get it, some of those favorite spots are sometimes far away.

Stay safe on the road.

John.

Love the range we get with our setup.

Did forget to mention for comparisons sake EVs when charging are not subject to Sate and Federal "gas taxes" which varies from state to state. In my state that is $.80 per gallon of gas, Diesel is even higher.

So to level out the playing field by stripping off the gas tax I would now be at $.32 per mile..

The states are slowly catching up, some now are planning on slapping a surcharge to the annual registration.. In my state they have been bantering the idea of dropping the fuel tax and hitting us all over the head with additional registration AND mileage tax which in the end will result in higher costs for the motorists..

One of my biggest concerns is what happens to everyone's electric bill costs.. Traditionally most electric companies billing methods in the states were designed to encourage LESS power usage.. Use more KWhrs of energy and the rates skyrocket in surcharges which are percentage based.. I can easy see a $5 difference in my electric bill just by using a couple extra Kwhrs..

Example, Jan this yr we used 1,113 Kwhrs at $116, March bill we used 1,037 Kwhrs at $111. A $5 difference for 76 Kwhr.. The actual electric generation charge we buy at is $.05 per Kwhr and for $76 Kwhr more we should have paid only $3.80.. On edit.. I will note that our generation rate does vary a bit month to month and is not fixed, and the data I have on my spreadsheet for quick reference doesn't include that change. All of the taxes and other charges are percentage based and those are not linear..

[Reisender]

Gdetrailer wrote:

Reisender wrote:

thomasmnile wrote:
What are you charged for the charge? Does Tesla mark up the kwh rate the local utility charges for power and by how much?

Tesla has about 8 Superchargers in large shopping center just off I-4 in our community. Seems they are all in use constantly in daytime.

Depends on the state of charge when we arrive but I’ll say on average maybe 18 to 25 bucks. It’s billed by the minute, not kwh, and the rate you pay is determined by the speed your battery accepts the charge. It’s at least 4 times cheaper at home. As well, in our experience it’s also cheaper at campgrounds at level 2 overnight. Most campgrounds are pretty reasonable for a charge fee, and some don’t charge, as long as you don’t plug both the EV and RV in at the same time.

I think KOA has it right adding J1772 plugs right on the pedestal. Probably a sign of things to come. And probably a good revenue stream.

Hope that helps.

Cheers.

John.

Interesting,

Say at $25 per charge you mentioned and you get roughly 150 miles per charge towing that is about $.17 cents per mile.

But for the concerns of most RV'rs if you "ramped up" the size and weight of the tow vehicle and trailer trailer I suspect the mileage between charges will drop considerably and or would require a much bigger battery pack than what is currently offered to get back to 150 mile range towing.

Upgrading the size of battery pack will then add more charging time which in turn will ultimately cost you much more than $25 per charge.

To put that into perspective, my current truck averages 10 MPG towing, truck empty weight 5742 lbs per my DOT documents and 26ft trailer empty weight is 4,800 lbs. Combo I am at 10,542 lbs empty, loaded for camping around 12,000 lbs.

At average current fuel pricing of $4.00 my cost would be $.40 per mile.

Your rig by my best guess is 5,000-5,500 lbs vehicle and 1,900-2,900 lbs for the trailer. A combo of up to 8,400 lbs loaded, about 4K lbs shy of my loaded combo weight.

While it looks like you are saving money right now but what happens when you start scaling the size and weight that up? That is the real life question.

I suspect it won't be the same $25 or less per charge and you won't be getting 150 mile towing range..

I really don't mind my $.40 per mile cost, my truck tank is 35 gallon, I carry a 15 gallon tank in the truck bed and with 10 MPG that gives me up to 500 miles of towing range without the need to stop for fuel.

Sure, we have to take "nature stops" but now we no longer have to waste time finding decent setup fuel stations for our truck and trailer to get in and out of. Since we are towing a trailer with it's own toilet we can pull off anywhere, anytime we need to and not offend the general population trying get their fuel.

The 15gallon tank eliminated two time wasting fuel stops on one of our routes.. Takes about 8-10 minutes to fuel up not including waiting to get a pump spot or the other 20-30 minutes wasted in driving out of the way to reach a station. We now get to our destination over 1 hr faster by getting rid of two fuel stops.

We like many other RV'rs drive considerably longer than 4 hrs per day, I typically will drive 10hrs per day. The reasoning for this is we only have a set amount of vacation days that we can set aside for driving to and from our destination. As it is Our normal destination is split between two days each way. That is 4 days travel at 10hrs each day..

Driving only 4 hrs per day would mean we would need five days each way and spend only 4 days at our destination..

Glad it works for you.

Myself, nope, fuel stops are not the destination/highlight of our trips and they no longer rule my stops, I am not going backwards in life to bend for EV.. They will have to improve EV distance towing and much much shorter charging times for the bigger battery for myself to consider it.

It sounds like you have the perfect tow vehicle for your needs. And that is an impressive range. Even four hours is a stretch for us. We did a 1740 kilometre great circle with our motorhome a few years back. It took us 7 weeks. LOL. :). I think our longest day on the road was an hour and half. :).

We all travel differently of course and I get it, some of those favorite spots are sometimes far away.

Stay safe on the road.

John.