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Is there an Air Conditioner using Inverter Compressor

Peter_Crowl
Explorer
Explorer
I love the split systems that I have in my home.
Now that I have the roof on my 2000 Bounder 34T cleared for recovering I'm wondering if anybody makes an inverter system unit for RV's.
Searched around the net but came up empty.
38 REPLIES 38

StirCrazy
Nomad III
Nomad III
JRscooby wrote:
Peter_Crowl wrote:
Semi tractors with Split system air?
Just google it.
here, for example is a link to a you tube video on the installation.

https://youtu.be/GUQAj7dTsSo


Not sure where the link takes you. I see some yeahwho cobbling some snot together in his yard.
I know my experience is a decade out of date, but when I retired 3 major options;
A)Sleep where idle restrictions did not apply/where not enforced, idle engine.(My choice)
B)Add a Auxiliary Power Unit, which is a small diesel engine that powers a second AC compressor and a second alternator. I think all also have inverter to power high voltage loads. (If had not retired, my old Pete would have got this upgrade)
C)New trucks could be optioned with a AC unit that was advertised to maintain cab temp for 10 hours on power stored while working the truck.
Now I'm not at all opposed to DIY, but if, like you say, he has to idle his engine to run the AC, what has he gained?
To talk about the RV world; I often read "solar will take care of all power needs, unless I need AC. IMHO, a ICE powering the AC compressor directly instead of a genset might make more sense.


Idle engins, APU (still a engin running and so on. I have a few friends who retired from the military and are trucking.. the lack of maintenance or cheepness of the companies boil down to the apu's are not installed or seldom work. when I pick them up for visits as they are passing through almost every truck at the truck stop is still running. I am aware there are other means aside from running the truck but they are seldome used.

could we do it in an rv? hell ya but people whine about the cost of a second battery, how about that 5th or 6th I was looking into this option a few years ago but decided against it as I would have to tow a trailer around with fold out solar and a huge battery bank as I would need to run it 24/7 if I camped around home in the summer.. the most efficient one I found was about 78amps at half speed. and full speed was comparable to what we already have when you convert the wattage, just 12V is easier to tie into a system.

what I decided to do instead is camp elsewhere out of this desart I call home and go to higher elavations, west coast or a different provence, and camp with the camper more in the spring and fall. the 5th wheel if we need to stay around this area we just get a place where we can plug in so the dog has AC if he isnt with us and we can sleep at night.
2014 F350 6.7 Platinum
2016 Cougar 330RBK
1991 Slumberqueen WS100

spoon059
Explorer II
Explorer II
Skibane wrote:
There are ducted mini-splits available - Could be mounted in an overhead cabinet, with the ducting routed along the back side of adjacent cabinets.

Some of the ceiling cassettes also have knock-outs for running small ducts to other areas.

That is true, but hard to do a retrofit like that. I don't really like the existing ducts in thr ceiling becuase the hot roof transmits that heat to the ducts and makes it warmer cool air.
2015 Ram CTD
2015 Jayco 29QBS

JRscooby
Explorer II
Explorer II
Peter_Crowl wrote:
Semi tractors with Split system air?
Just google it.
here, for example is a link to a you tube video on the installation.

https://youtu.be/GUQAj7dTsSo


Not sure where the link takes you. I see some yeahwho cobbling some snot together in his yard.
I know my experience is a decade out of date, but when I retired 3 major options;
A)Sleep where idle restrictions did not apply/where not enforced, idle engine.(My choice)
B)Add a Auxiliary Power Unit, which is a small diesel engine that powers a second AC compressor and a second alternator. I think all also have inverter to power high voltage loads. (If had not retired, my old Pete would have got this upgrade)
C)New trucks could be optioned with a AC unit that was advertised to maintain cab temp for 10 hours on power stored while working the truck.
Now I'm not at all opposed to DIY, but if, like you say, he has to idle his engine to run the AC, what has he gained?
To talk about the RV world; I often read "solar will take care of all power needs, unless I need AC. IMHO, a ICE powering the AC compressor directly instead of a genset might make more sense.

Peter_Crowl
Explorer
Explorer
Semi tractors with Split system air?
Just google it.
here, for example is a link to a you tube video on the installation.

https://youtu.be/GUQAj7dTsSo

JRscooby
Explorer II
Explorer II
StirCrazy wrote:

thats what I was talking about bigger wiring huge battery bank and so on. they are made for big rigs that are ideling all the time now to run off an adverage rv when boon docking. if you use a 120V model now you have inverter inefficencies to worry about also which is even a larger draw.


Explain what kind of "big rigs" are using electric AC compressors and idling all the time?

StirCrazy
Nomad III
Nomad III
Skibane wrote:
spoon059 wrote:
The only possibly downfall that I am currently seeing is the inability to cool multiple rooms. My camper has a rear bunkhouse and a front master bedroom. With the doors closed for privacy/light, it would prevent the even flow of conditioned air. Putting a cassette in those areas would take a LOT of space and would be overwhelming cooling/heating power in such a small area.


There are ducted mini-splits available - Could be mounted in an overhead cabinet, with the ducting routed along the back side of adjacent cabinets.

Some of the ceiling cassettes also have knock-outs for running small ducts to other areas.

StirCrazy wrote:
and pretty power hungry, 105Amps at 12V on max.


That's "only" 1260 watts - Not much different from a typical 120V unit.

One problem with 12V units is that the high amperage requires thick wire, and introduces electrical losses. If you have a long wire wire run between the unit and your batteries, you might actually get less loss by using an inverter with a 120 volt model instead - even taking into account the conversion losses inside the inverter.


thats what I was talking about bigger wiring huge battery bank and so on. they are made for big rigs that are ideling all the time now to run off an adverage rv when boon docking. if you use a 120V model now you have inverter inefficencies to worry about also which is even a larger draw.
2014 F350 6.7 Platinum
2016 Cougar 330RBK
1991 Slumberqueen WS100

Peter_Crowl
Explorer
Explorer
The best source of comparative data between a Roof Top and a Split System can be found on You Tube. "RV Rooftop vs Mini-Split AC | Shop Talk | DIY Truck Camper" video. It's a great in depth comparison of the two by an HVAC engineer that's presented in plain English with a spreadsheet comparing the data.

This is the direct link to that video: https://youtu.be/2rk4rANcaVg

Installation of a split would be a process but it is well documented by others so while it's not bolt on easy it doesn't require one to break trail. LG sells an inverter system window unit that's actually brilliant. If it wouldn't look so ghet..er..sketchy ..one of those would provide 14,000 btu cooling in an easy to install package for under $600! You can find them on Amazon for information sake.

In another forum the Houghton roof air units were recommended as a better alternative to Dometic and the like. Looks like they are a bit less noisy.

JRscooby
Explorer II
Explorer II
Skibane wrote:
If you have a long wire wire run between the unit and your batteries, you might actually get less loss by using an inverter with a 120 volt model instead - even taking into account the conversion losses inside the inverter.



I would assume "split" would mean you could mount the compressor, the big load, near the battery

Skibane
Explorer II
Explorer II
spoon059 wrote:
The only possibly downfall that I am currently seeing is the inability to cool multiple rooms. My camper has a rear bunkhouse and a front master bedroom. With the doors closed for privacy/light, it would prevent the even flow of conditioned air. Putting a cassette in those areas would take a LOT of space and would be overwhelming cooling/heating power in such a small area.


There are ducted mini-splits available - Could be mounted in an overhead cabinet, with the ducting routed along the back side of adjacent cabinets.

Some of the ceiling cassettes also have knock-outs for running small ducts to other areas.

StirCrazy wrote:
and pretty power hungry, 105Amps at 12V on max.


That's "only" 1260 watts - Not much different from a typical 120V unit.

One problem with 12V units is that the high amperage requires thick wire, and introduces electrical losses. If you have a long wire wire run between the unit and your batteries, you might actually get less loss by using an inverter with a 120 volt model instead - even taking into account the conversion losses inside the inverter.

spoon059
Explorer II
Explorer II
New Horizon's offers a mini split as OEM now. https://horizonsrv.com/why-new-horizons/interior-systems/

There are several videos on youtube of people installing DIY mini splits in RV's as well. I like the idea, as they cool more efficiently, heat with electricity, dehumidify, use substantially less power, give you a lower profile roof, are quieter and more effective.

The only possibly downfall that I am currently seeing is the inability to cool multiple rooms. My camper has a rear bunkhouse and a front master bedroom. With the doors closed for privacy/light, it would prevent the even flow of conditioned air. Putting a cassette in those areas would take a LOT of space and would be overwhelming cooling/heating power in such a small area.
2015 Ram CTD
2015 Jayco 29QBS

ol_Bombero-JC
Explorer
Explorer
theoldwizard1 wrote:
Peter_Crowl wrote:
I love the split systems that I have in my home.
Now that I have the roof on my 2000 Bounder 34T cleared for recovering I'm wondering if anybody makes an inverter system unit for RV's.

There are some 12VDC or 24VDC A/C systems designed for trucks, but nothing in the RV specific market.

Some people have taken residential mini-split systems which do use inverter powered compressors and installed on RV. Not sure how well they would handle all of the bouncing around.

If you are a HVAC person, it would not be difficult to build your own. All of the parts are readily available.

You can of course run an A/C off of an inverter if you have a large enough one and sufficient battery power.

The big win on 12VDC compressors is that they actually use 3 phase AC motors. 3 phase motors are much more energy efficient than straight DC or single phase AC.


OP: Try a search on the Escapees Heavy Duty Truck ("HDT") forum.
I recall some of the HDT owners (usually Volvo with integrated sleepers) using Mini-splits. Of course the cab is a small area.

However, possibly some may have *also* done something similar for the 40ft 5th wheel trlrs they tow.

~

Peter_Crowl
Explorer
Explorer
If it wouldn't look so...trashy...LG makes a 14,000 btu inverter window unit that offers reasonably quiet operation and low power draw.
If they can do that why not a roof top?

LG Inverter Window Unit

magicbus
Explorer
Explorer
StirCrazy wrote:
magicbus wrote:
Peter_Crowl wrote:
magicbus wrote:
The guy who installed my house inverters explained that to operate properly an inverter requires a certain minimum length run between the inverter and the heat exchanger to operate properly. Something like 20โ€™. He has done 3 installations for me so I tend to accept what he says.

Dave


Interesting. I have three in my house. None are that far apart. The line runs are - IIRC - 12 and 16' with the excess line coiled up behind the outside unit.
As I said, something like 20โ€™, it was a couple of years ago. And he said he would have to coil any excess near the inverter. He preferred to bury it which is what started the discussion. Our shortest run was just long enough that there was no excess.

Dave


its probably because the standard lenth of precharged line is 20'. if he had to cut his own line, add the fittings, solder them then purge and charge them the cost would be several times more so a lot of installers are going to the precharged lines and trying to lay it out so there isnt any excess that just looks bad and showes how they did it.

Actually the other two runs were close to 40โ€™ and he did evacuate and charge the system. He wasnโ€™t shortcutting the installation. He explained that inverters, unlike heat pumps, had some minimum requirement for the gas to expand before it was returned to the inverter. At least thatโ€™s how I understood the explanation.

Dave
Current: 2018 Winnebago Era A
Previous: Selene 49 Trawler
Previous: Country Coach Allure 36

StirCrazy
Nomad III
Nomad III
pianotuna wrote:
Here are a few battery powered air conditioners. Fairly pricey.

https://www.nomadiccooling.com/?gclid=Cj0KCQjw4PKTBhD8ARIsAHChzRI3SRbre56BRTRN3t54f5dHLaKSO1GMjaSCR2...


and pretty power hungry, 105Amps at 12V on max. I was looking at several of these last year, couldnt find any that were actualy deicent with power usage aside from the swamp cooler types, but then your pumping moisture into your rv.....

Steve
2014 F350 6.7 Platinum
2016 Cougar 330RBK
1991 Slumberqueen WS100

StirCrazy
Nomad III
Nomad III
magicbus wrote:
Peter_Crowl wrote:
magicbus wrote:
The guy who installed my house inverters explained that to operate properly an inverter requires a certain minimum length run between the inverter and the heat exchanger to operate properly. Something like 20โ€™. He has done 3 installations for me so I tend to accept what he says.

Dave


Interesting. I have three in my house. None are that far apart. The line runs are - IIRC - 12 and 16' with the excess line coiled up behind the outside unit.
As I said, something like 20โ€™, it was a couple of years ago. And he said he would have to coil any excess near the inverter. He preferred to bury it which is what started the discussion. Our shortest run was just long enough that there was no excess.

Dave


its probably because the standard lenth of precharged line is 20'. if he had to cut his own line, add the fittings, solder them then purge and charge them the cost would be several times more so a lot of installers are going to the precharged lines and trying to lay it out so there isnt any excess that just looks bad and showes how they did it.
2014 F350 6.7 Platinum
2016 Cougar 330RBK
1991 Slumberqueen WS100