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SiO2 Batteries and High Amp Draws

BFL13
Explorer II
Explorer II
SiO2 is a specialty battery type that most folks would have no use for vs the usual RV battery types. They cost a lot too.( I had a special reason to get one)

Here is some info on them --I am not selling them!!! Just trying to show what they are

https://azimuthsolar.ca/product/12v-100ah-sio2-battery/

One big thing they are supposed to be good for is high amp draw loads for their size in AH. So here is what I found on that:

1. The 200AH bank (two 100s) with the 2000w MSW inverter and my wiring job has a voltage drop that stays about the same for the same load at any SOC above inverter shut-off voltage.

2. The MW draws about 55 amps and the kettle draws about 89 amps and the furnace in the TC draws about 3.5 amps.

So example using kettle to boil water for cup of instant coffee. (No advice needed on making coffee, you latte bunch, thanks anyway ๐Ÿ™‚ )

A. Monitor before start--142AH, 12.7 volts, 71% SOC
After start- 88.7 amps draw, 11.7 volts, about five minutes kettle off
Monitor now--135AH, 12.5 volts (rising slowly), 68%

So that time 89/142 is a 63% draw.

B. Before-- 113AH, 12.3 volts, 57%
-11.5v at 88a
-11.2v at 90.5a
-11.1v at 90.6a
After= 106AH, 53% SOC

So that time 90/110 is an 82% draw.

(note how inverter amps go up as voltage goes down--"inverter creep" The inverter did not alarm at the 11.1 but would have at 11 but still run until shut off at 10 something. Both times cost about 7AH each

C. Another example kettle and furnace on 107AH and now 90.1 amp draw voltage 10.9 and inverter beeping

So that time 90/107 is an 84% draw.

I first got one SiO2 to run the MW (700w RCA) in the TC and did a quick test where ISTR it ran its 55 amp draw for over 30 minutes till SOC was about 20% afterwards. The battery discharge tables in their specs showed the discharge time was close to specs for that size draw.

The comical thing is I learned the MW can heat the water enough to make my coffee using fewer AH than the kettle in the TC.
-kettle 5 minutes at 89 amps --voltage drop 1.0 volt
-MW 3 minutes at 55 amps (MSW inverter. A PSW inverter would draw more amps but not take as long to heat the water, but still use more AH than the MSW depending on your version of hot enough)--voltage drop 0.8 volt.

Note the kettle also needs more water than needed for a cup to reach its minimum fill level marker, and it gets the water too hot. Yes I can use the propane stove with a pot of water and do it that way--if desperate!

However that is in the TC with the small MW and MSW. In the MH the MW is bigger and the inverter is PSW, so the kettle is a valid choice.

So that was pretty good IMO. For those kinds of high draws I would need four 6s at 50% SOC or 90/230 = 39% draw to stay above inverter alarm at 11 volts
1. 1991 Oakland 28DB Class C
on Ford E350-460-7.5 Gas EFI
Photo in Profile
2. 1991 Bighorn 9.5ft Truck Camper on 2003 Chev 2500HD 6.0 Gas
See Profile for Electronic set-ups for 1. and 2.
48 REPLIES 48

Y-Guy
Moderator
Moderator
Thread in on a time out for the time being.

Two Wire Fox Terriers; Sarge & Sully

2007 Winnebago Sightseer 35J

2020 Jeep Gladiator Rubicon

PerryB67
Explorer
Explorer
BFL13 wrote:
OP here, time for Mods to close this thread.
Having used SiO2 for the past 1 1/2 years, but not being on this forum for the past few months, Iโ€™m sad that it may be closed. Just got home and was hoping to discuss our actual SiO2 user experiences. There is some BS that was not caught posted here too.

Oh, well.

Perry
2016 Bigfoot 25RQ
2019 F150 Max Tow, Max Springs, 3.5 EB Quad Cab
Victron 712, Victron 100/20, Victron 100/30
160 Watts on the Roof, 100 watt portable
Two 100 ah SOK LFP Batteries

BFL13
Explorer II
Explorer II
OP here, time for Mods to close this thread.
1. 1991 Oakland 28DB Class C
on Ford E350-460-7.5 Gas EFI
Photo in Profile
2. 1991 Bighorn 9.5ft Truck Camper on 2003 Chev 2500HD 6.0 Gas
See Profile for Electronic set-ups for 1. and 2.

StirCrazy
Nomad III
Nomad III
pianotuna wrote:
Small resistance numbers may make dramatic differences.

It is an advantage to have fewer battery management systems.

For example. One battery at 20% state of charge, and another at 80%. (Yes, I know that is not usual). The BMS in the 80% will shut down first, leaving the other battery only partly charged.



no it wont shut down both batteries, the BMS in one battery doesnt magicly shut down the other ones and it definatly isnt going to shut down a battery at 80% the BMS is not a controler as you see it, it is a monitor with a out of range protection. so it doesnt control charging (well if you have an active balancing feature built in it will control that only) but as far as charging goes each batteries BMS will only monitor that battery. as charging happens if one hits a charg limit it will shut down that battery and the other will keep charging, but if you hit that limit before the other are charged that is another issue all togeather,as in you shouldnt be allowed to wire batteries togeather no mater what type they are.

you theory about little resistance differences applied to every battery type, and thats why when we conect batterys we use larger than required cables and arange them in methods that give you the same lenghts of cables so resistance from cables and the conections are the same. well most of us do, I have seen some pretty ugle battery jobs...

you spout off numbers that are for different chemistries, you make issues that apply to every battery type sound like there unique to Li. it almost makes it seam like the SiO2 dealer is paying you , but we know that isnt true or you would actualy have that kinda battery.
2014 F350 6.7 Platinum
2016 Cougar 330RBK
1991 Slumberqueen WS100

pianotuna
Nomad II
Nomad II
Small resistance numbers may make dramatic differences.

It is an advantage to have fewer battery management systems.

For example. One battery at 20% state of charge, and another at 80%. (Yes, I know that is not usual). The BMS in the 80% will shut down first, leaving the other battery only partly charged.

The solution is to charge them separately.

This is NOT my opinion.

If requested I'll post a link about what happens.
Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, 556 amp-hours of Telcom jars, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.

StirCrazy
Nomad III
Nomad III
BFL13 wrote:
StirCrazy wrote:
pianotuna wrote:
Every extra connection causes some additional resistance and a possible failure point.


that is true, but when talking one battery or 4 that isnt much of a difference, the only extra contection is the jumpers bettwen the batteris themselves. heavy wires and good bolts... not much of a risk.


Would having fewer BMSs that need to work together be an advantage, or even from having fewer BMSs as possible failure points-- that was mentioned with some lower priced LFPs---saw that somewhere. Might have got it wrong.



there is a lot of misconseption out there that BMS control the power of a battery, they don't they are normaly in apassive state just monitoring the power coming in and out of the battery then if it hits a limit they do something. or when the battery is full they ballance the cells if that is a feature of your BMS. if your operating in there range then no as they would just be pasive at that point not controling anything but monitering. it is not the normal way for a BMS to fail. when you are operating around the limits of their capability, that is when they would fail so if you plan on having a 110amp draw, I would much rather have two 100 watt batteries with 100amp bms than one 200 watt battery with a 150 watt BMS, or better yet four 100amp batteries all sporting 100amp BMS.

of course there are always exceptions and maybe a cheep BMS would have a higher degree of componant failure and so on, but a lot of cheep ones are just unbranded copys of the good ones using the same exact parts. I think the biggest failure rate I saw was when they started intagrating bluetooth monitoring into the BMS.

Steve
2014 F350 6.7 Platinum
2016 Cougar 330RBK
1991 Slumberqueen WS100

3_tons
Explorer
Explorer
BFL said: โ€œWould having fewer BMSs that need to work together be an advantage, or even from having fewer BMSs as possible failure points-- that was mentioned with some lower priced LFPs---saw that somewhere. Might have got it wrong. โ€

Theoretically correct, and practically as well, SolaCity references this BMS failure possibility whereby too large of inverter and current draw on a marginally-sized battery set-up, but in my view this points more to component mis-matching rather than a ubiquitous BMS problemโ€ฆThus, I would not anticipate a problem (nor am aware of oneโ€ฆ) so long as one does not exceed a LFPโ€™s (whatever vendors) rated current specs, though (par for the course!), thereโ€™s something to be said for choosing quality batteries (or separate components) from a known reputable supplier, in that I consider warranty and real time tech support are of a substantial valueโ€ฆEverything here of course, JMHO

3 tons

BFL13
Explorer II
Explorer II
StirCrazy wrote:
pianotuna wrote:
Every extra connection causes some additional resistance and a possible failure point.


that is true, but when talking one battery or 4 that isnt much of a difference, the only extra contection is the jumpers bettwen the batteris themselves. heavy wires and good bolts... not much of a risk.


Would having fewer BMSs that need to work together be an advantage, or even from having fewer BMSs as possible failure points-- that was mentioned with some lower priced LFPs---saw that somewhere. Might have got it wrong.
1. 1991 Oakland 28DB Class C
on Ford E350-460-7.5 Gas EFI
Photo in Profile
2. 1991 Bighorn 9.5ft Truck Camper on 2003 Chev 2500HD 6.0 Gas
See Profile for Electronic set-ups for 1. and 2.

StirCrazy
Nomad III
Nomad III
pianotuna wrote:
Every extra connection causes some additional resistance and a possible failure point.


that is true, but when talking one battery or 4 that isnt much of a difference, the only extra contection is the jumpers bettwen the batteris themselves. heavy wires and good bolts... not much of a risk.
2014 F350 6.7 Platinum
2016 Cougar 330RBK
1991 Slumberqueen WS100

pianotuna
Nomad II
Nomad II
Every extra connection causes some additional resistance and a possible failure point.
Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, 556 amp-hours of Telcom jars, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.

StirCrazy
Nomad III
Nomad III
pianotuna wrote:


In my opinion it is better to have high amperage batteries--so two 200 amp, or one 400 amp may offer superior service to four 100 amp jars.


Im not sure if I agree or not, the % of draw would be the same so it might not make a difference if you were using all the same. when I am going convert my 5th wheel I will be going from four 208AH 6V to three or four 300Amp LFP (depends what my wallet will alow me to do haha.) so this senario doesnt apply as I am basicly going from 416AH@12V to 900-1200AH@12V so the percentage of draw will be a lot less, hene the heat will be a lot less.


I wonder if it makes a difference just going from FLA, or what ever to LFP due to the lower internal resistance... that might make enough of a difference alone.
2014 F350 6.7 Platinum
2016 Cougar 330RBK
1991 Slumberqueen WS100

BFL13
Explorer II
Explorer II
"2 x faster! 3 hrs vs 6 hrs . So how far down in SOC is the starting point where you can charge it up to what SOC ? "Regular" 100AH batts take a very long time to get from 90 to 100% SOC. On generator (their sales pitch for less gen time) you stop the charge at 90 anyway. So what is the comparison in time for doing 50-90s?

Seems like a bogus sales claim to me! It could turn on where along in SOC it goes from constant amps to tapering amps. That is why we need the charging profiles to compare them.

Anyway, I will check for that with my SiO2s and see how it goes"

Ok graph in the other thread, but 50-90 was 90 min vs 139 min sort of more or less almost, so that is 65% of the FLA time not half the time, but it is still a lot.

BTW you can't say "2 times faster" when discussing generator time. It is not like eg, 60 mph vs 30 mph. What is meant is "half the time". Sales babble.
1. 1991 Oakland 28DB Class C
on Ford E350-460-7.5 Gas EFI
Photo in Profile
2. 1991 Bighorn 9.5ft Truck Camper on 2003 Chev 2500HD 6.0 Gas
See Profile for Electronic set-ups for 1. and 2.

3_tons
Explorer
Explorer
Per StirCrazy: โ€œhow did you turn this about PT lol.โ€œ

Not my intent, when I write I try to assume that the larger audience (who might have just tuned inโ€ฆ) may know little about the subject matter du jour - so I emphasized โ€˜the knownโ€™ cold weather virtues of SiO2 (else folks may get partial info) while adding that additional findings might still await. (e.g. just lessons Iโ€™m reminded of when communicatingโ€ฆ).

3 tons

pianotuna
Nomad II
Nomad II
BFL13,

AGM taper later than flooded. I suspect SiO2 taper later than AGM. There are now Li batteries using SiO2 anodes--for greater capacity and faster charging.

I'm happy with low and slow. Only once every 30 days would I need to get to 100%. With dual banks that is easy with the current technology I have in place.

I'd be tempted to get a pair of the largest SiO2 (270 amp hours), instead of multiple 100 amp-hour units. I would have to charge "one at a time" on that monthly schedule. It is more expensive to do so as there is a discount on multiple 100 amp-hour jars.

I look forward to hearing the results of your testing.
Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, 556 amp-hours of Telcom jars, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.