Mmaxed
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It's not just charging stations that will need sorted. It's the generation and transportation of the power that will be the bigger issue. By the time that is done it will cost as much or more than driving an ICE powered rig.
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ShinerBock
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time2roll wrote:ShinerBock wrote:After watching the video, I think you need to add more context to this to further your point. The charging of five hours was on top of overnight charging while they slept. The first night they pulled in a 3am and slept until 8am. I think TFL failed to get a night sleep.
I would consider 12 hours to be an overnight charge. Pull in by 8pm, leave 8am.
This could cut into driving safely the next day. (TFL fail)
The last time I did a road trip like that from Texas to Michigan helping a friend move, we only slept for 6 hours both nights. I was driving his crew cab pick up truck and he was driving the Penske van that was towing his GTO. Our goal was to get to the destination and not sight see. I can't image adding another 5-10 hours to that trip.
The two road trip before that was from South Texas to Utah. That one was very similar to the amount of miles in the TFL video of 1,200. Again, both trips up there we only slept for about 6 hours because we were in a hurry to get there. I was also towing my Jeep and bunch of other gear totaling 10k lbs so I can't imagine how much additional time I would have spent charging on on that trip.
So while the times they slept and woke up are not normal, the amount of time they slept is for all of the road trips I have taken where we actually spent the night along the route. There are many road trips that my wife and I teamed up to drive straight through like Florida. I think the truck in the video would have forced us to stay the night somewhere.
* This post was
edited 06/16/22 10:09am by ShinerBock *
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way2roll
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valhalla360 wrote:
Electric motors have been better than ICE going back to the 1800's. The problem has been and continues to be energy storage. The current solution is to keep adding more batteries and bringing down the price via economy of scale but those limits are being reached and the supply of minerals for batteries may soon reverse those cost improvements.
This. I can't escape the thought that EV's re just trading one set of issues for another. The sourcing of materials for the batteries is ecologically damaging and presents a heavy dependence on foreign nations and it's a finite resource. Not ignoring the fact that those foreign nations have questionable labor laws. How is this better? The manufacture of batteries is very caustic and hardly green, and then there is the eventual disposal of batteries - hazardous materials.
When these issues get brought up they somehow get swept under the rug.
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Lantley
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valhalla360 wrote:Lantley wrote:While the others play catch up in terms of infrastructure Tesla has figured it out to a large degree.
At this point all the others are still playing catch up.
Tesla has really changed the game. Once you understand the ICE is obsolete you will see that charging stations and batteries are the next big hurdle but it is only a matter of time before these hurdles are overcome.
I imagine when the model T came on the scene it took awhile for people to park their horse and buggy. I imagine it also took awhile before there was gas available on every corner nationwide.
The challenge for the Wright bros. was creating the plane. Figuring out where to build airports was the easy part.
Tesla has shown that the ICE can be replaced with a motor more similar to a vaccuum cleaner than a car engine
Pistons, fuel injection,cams shafts,large transmissions,radiators, manifolds,mufflers.+ are all eliminated....let that sink in!!! THe are to trunks on a Tesla and no real engine compartment. There is no heat to dissapate.
Tesla is real and working. Figuring out where to put charging stations is the easy part. OK not that easy but certainly doable.
EV is here to stay all the auto manufacturers realize the ICE is dead and have committed to EV even though they have not totally sorted things out like Tesla.
The challenge now is to change the public mindset and understanding of EV as well as adapting and creating the infrastructure to suport it.
There is also the challenge of who is going to reap the profits. There will be winners and losers. Exxon Mobil is not going away without a fight. Many of us had VCR's and Blockbuster cards that are now worthless.
Going green is as much about the battle over the money $$$ as it is the battle over the enviroment.
Change is coming.....Wired internet is going away totally wireless routers are the future.
It happens fast, keep looking forward not backwards.....nothing behind you but: pay phones, VCR's, DVD's, horse and buggy's, tube TV's,land line phones and ICE's!
What have they figured out? An isolated ecosystem of chargers that is still far too small is likely going to become antiquated and die off. This is why Tesla tried to "give away" it's patents, so they could become the dominant charging standard and later they could profit off it.
Electric motors have been better than ICE going back to the 1800's. The problem has been and continues to be energy storage. The current solution is to keep adding more batteries and bringing down the price via economy of scale but those limits are being reached and the supply of minerals for batteries may soon reverse those cost improvements.
For all their complexity, the modern ICE is incredibly reliable. Most cars go to the junkyard with a functional engine.
Yes, manufacturers have realized that govt mandates are here...at least for now. As the old saying goes, "you don't fight city hall".
Actually Tesla has figured out how to mass produce an EV that reliably works. That has not existed since the 1800's.
None of the major players have been able to achieve this feat to date!
Its more than just hype or old news. Tesla has built the platform that will eventually replace the ICE.
It's more of a money,mindset issue than a technical issue at this point. Tesla has established a real live working blueprint for the vehicle itself.
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Grit dog
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Now the Over the Hill gang is criticizing driving habits?
I’m sure when the AARP and Social Security kick in, I may not be able to drive as many miles a day as now, but y’all that are actually pretending that you take issue with the driving habits, well, Nevermind. I won’t go there.
BTW wasn’t there 2 guys team driving? Didn’t watch the video, don’t gaf how many times a truck got recharged and what the scenery looks like in Nebraska. Heck my wife and 15 year old son made a run from here to the Midwest. 1900 miles, one stop for a sleep n shower. Left at 4am day 1 arrived late at night on day 2.
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time2roll
Southern California
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ShinerBock wrote:The last time I did a road trip like that from Texas to Michigan helping a friend move, we only slept for 6 hours both nights. I was driving his crew cab pick up truck and he was driving the Penske van that was towing his GTO. Our goal was to get to the destination and not sight see. I can't image adding another 5-10 hours to that trip.
The two road trip before that was from South Texas to Utah. That one was very similar to the amount of miles in the TFL video of 1,200. Again, both trips up there we only slept for about 6 hours because we were in a hurry to get there. I was also towing my Jeep and bunch of other gear totaling 10k lbs so I can't imagine how much additional time I would have spent charging on on that trip.
So while the times they slept and woke up are not normal, the amount of time they slept is for all of the road trips I have taken where we actually spent the night along the route. There are many road trips that my wife and I teamed up to drive straight through like Florida. I think the truck in the video would have forced us to stay the night somewhere. I recently drove from So Cal to IL and slept 8 hours each of 3 nights and was in at each stop for dinner. I could not imagine cutting sleep to 5 hours to make the journey in 2 stops 3 days. To each their own.
Still to me if someone says they charged overnight I would expect 10-12 hours charging not 5. The truck did not fail to charge and acted perfectly normal as designed. TFL failed to use the truck as designed.
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way2roll
Wilmington NC
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Lantley wrote:
Actually Tesla has figured out how to mass produce an EV that reliably works. That has not existed since the 1800's.
None of the major players have been able to achieve this feat to date!
Its more than just hype or old news. Tesla has built the platform that will eventually replace the ICE.
It's more of a money,mindset issue than a technical issue at this point. Tesla has established a real live working blueprint for the vehicle itself.
"figure out" is a stretch. The platform and methodology was already there. They just threw enough money at it - Government subsidized money that the taxpayer - you and I pay for. We all bought Tesla's whether we wanted to or not. According to a Los Angeles Times investigation, Musk's companies had received an estimated $4.9 billion in government support by 2015, and they've gotten more since. Musk is about the richest person in the world and it ain't from selling Teslas.
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ShinerBock
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time2roll wrote:ShinerBock wrote:The last time I did a road trip like that from Texas to Michigan helping a friend move, we only slept for 6 hours both nights. I was driving his crew cab pick up truck and he was driving the Penske van that was towing his GTO. Our goal was to get to the destination and not sight see. I can't image adding another 5-10 hours to that trip.
The two road trip before that was from South Texas to Utah. That one was very similar to the amount of miles in the TFL video of 1,200. Again, both trips up there we only slept for about 6 hours because we were in a hurry to get there. I was also towing my Jeep and bunch of other gear totaling 10k lbs so I can't imagine how much additional time I would have spent charging on on that trip.
So while the times they slept and woke up are not normal, the amount of time they slept is for all of the road trips I have taken where we actually spent the night along the route. There are many road trips that my wife and I teamed up to drive straight through like Florida. I think the truck in the video would have forced us to stay the night somewhere. I recently drove from So Cal to IL and slept 8 hours each of 3 nights and was in at each stop for dinner. I could not imagine cutting sleep to 5 hours to make the journey in 2 stops 3 days. To each their own.
Still to me if someone says they charged overnight I would expect 10-12 hours charging not 5. The truck did not fail to charge and acted perfectly normal as designed. TFL failed to use the truck as designed.
On the Michigan trip, my friend left one job on Friday and started the other the following Monday. We drove as far as we could Friday after work, Got up, drove as far as we could the next day, and got their Sunday night. Seeing that Penske van was limited to 65 mph and there we many hills through Tennessee limiting that truck to 50 mph, we needed as much time driving as possible.
In regards to the Utah trips. I was going for an off road event in Moab towing my Jeep and didn't know how my gas truck would handle the mountains. Split the 20 hours of driving amongst two days and I wanted to spend more time at my destination than on the road.
TFL used the truck based on how they would use a gas truck. Understandably you are biased toward electric vehicles so you will give them more leeway and say you don't mind waiting or would sleep in longer, however, that is not how everyone use their gas vehicles when they are in a hurry to get to spend more time at their destination or on a time crunch. In this regard, the extra five hours on top of the time spent looking for charge stations is somewhat of a failure.
Again, I understand you do not see that due to your biases and willingness to make excuses for EV's, but many who expect the same our of an EV as their gas vehicle will not see it that way.
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Grit dog
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time2roll wrote:I recently drove from So Cal to IL and slept 8 hours each of 3 nights and was in at each stop for dinner. I could not imagine cutting sleep to 5 hours to make the journey in 2 stops 3 days. To each their own.
Still to me if someone says they charged overnight I would expect 10-12 hours charging not 5. The truck did not fail to charge and acted perfectly normal as designed. TFL failed to use the truck as designed.
Key word being "I". So you drove about 500miles per day. That's reasonable, but not "pushing it" by any means for a single driver.
Based on the TFL thing, that would have added 8 hours to your trip for misc charge stops. If that works for you, great.
But "TFL failed to use the truck as designed" can easily be interpreted as "the truck takes longer to get there because you have to stop and recharge so many times."
Maybe not a deal breaker running bobtail, but without any speculation, based on Reisender's real world experience towing about the tiniest trailer one could actually call a "trailer" and certainly far smaller than someone who buys a "big" F150 would reasonably expect to be able to tow, the range IS severely hindered in a towing scenario.
Take your 8 hours charging, double it to 16 based on Reisender's data for a towable pup tent on wheels, and then double it again for a "small" 5-6klb say 24' TT.
Does 16 additional hours on the side of the road charging, to get to IL towing a trailer that is less than half the rated tow capacity of the truck (or at least a normal F150) sound reasonable?
Just like ole YosemiteSam, the world is a nice place if you discount things like math, wind resistance, gravity, wind and other real world considerations like schedule.
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time2roll
Southern California
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ShinerBock wrote:TFL used the truck based on how they would use a gas truck. Understandably you are biased toward electric vehicles so you will give them more leeway and say you don't mind waiting or would sleep in longer, however, that is not how everyone use their gas vehicles when they are in a hurry to get to spend more time at their destination or on a time crunch. In this regard, the extra five hours on top of the time spent looking for charge stations is somewhat of a failure.
Again, I understand you do not see that due to your biases and willingness to make excuses for EV's, but many who expect the same our of an EV as their gas vehicle will not see it that way. OK if I load my F150 with a 40' 5th wheel and complain that it fails is that my fault or am I trying to use the truck in a way that it was not designed?
Or if I cannot arrive at the same time as my buddy that flies in an airplane is that a vehicle failure? Or a failure to have proper expectations?
The truck actually made the destination right? To me that is success. Fail would be rolling in on a tow truck.
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