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 > F150 Lightning Road Trip & Ike Gauntlet Pull

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Lantley

Ellicott City, Maryland

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Posted: 06/21/22 12:01pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

FishOnOne wrote:

Lantley wrote:

I wonder if there were this many naysayers unwilling to give up there horse when the model T was introduced?
Remember there were not many paved roads or even construction equipment to build them.
Somehow we managed to build roads, gas stations, and an auto industry.
We even took it a step further and built the airplane
It won't be next week but I think we'll find a way to develop a battery and charging solutions over the next 20 years or so.
Color TV,cell phones,computers and the internet have all been introduced since I was born and have dramatically changed the way we live and think.
To think we cannot develop battery technology is silly.


The thing is as new successful technology was developed, it was typically better than what it was replacing.

Do you believe EV is not a step forward?


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Posted: 06/21/22 12:22pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Lantley wrote:


Do you believe EV is not a step forward?


It's all context, man.
Being we are all in the "Tow Vehicle" section of a RV Forum, the new (and yet to be released) electric trucks are not even close to a step forward as tow rigs.
I mean, if there was a brand new EDuramax Dually, with (well EVs have so much power, that part would be easy) enough battery cap to tow your 5ver 100 miles (which would be like 300-400% more battery cap than the current Etrucks) for a mere $200k ($90-150k is the going rate for little trucks, so...), would you have one in your driveway tomorrow? And answer that honestly.

And in general, the only reason EV's ARE a step forward in some uses are because the power industry and subsidiaries (think fuel stations) aren't seeing enough of a demand to charge more for the supply.

Name one thing besides maybe Ramen noodles that a For Profit mfg or industry has said, "Dang the demand is huge for this thing that is a good deal for the consumer. We shall keep charging the absolute minimum we possibly can to stay in business to benefit our beloved consumers!"

There is a market. That market share will grow. And it may/will take over ICE vehicles completely at some point. And the overall "cost" WILL be the new norm, whatever it is. Just don't be blinded by the shiny objects in the mean time. As they aren't completely shiny when you consider the whole package.


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way2roll

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Posted: 06/21/22 12:29pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Lantley wrote:

FishOnOne wrote:

Lantley wrote:



The thing is as new successful technology was developed, it was typically better than what it was replacing.

Do you believe EV is not a step forward?


Nope. Given the true net on emissions gains (or lack thereof) from cradle to grave - not at the tailpipe , continued dependence on conventional energy, the ecological impacts of mining raw materials, the finite supply of raw materials, dependency on foreign nations for raw materials, questionable labor practices from those foreign nations, hazardous waste disposal during manufacturing as well as end of life for batteries, cost to replace batteries mid life cycle, and all the constraints and logistics of charging. No, they aren't better. It's trading one set of problems for another.


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FishOnOne

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Posted: 06/21/22 12:50pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Lantley wrote:

FishOnOne wrote:

Lantley wrote:

I wonder if there were this many naysayers unwilling to give up there horse when the model T was introduced?
Remember there were not many paved roads or even construction equipment to build them.
Somehow we managed to build roads, gas stations, and an auto industry.
We even took it a step further and built the airplane
It won't be next week but I think we'll find a way to develop a battery and charging solutions over the next 20 years or so.
Color TV,cell phones,computers and the internet have all been introduced since I was born and have dramatically changed the way we live and think.
To think we cannot develop battery technology is silly.


The thing is as new successful technology was developed, it was typically better than what it was replacing.

Do you believe EV is not a step forward?


For towing and long distance traveling like TFL's test - Call it 3 steps forwards and two steps back.


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time2roll

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Posted: 06/21/22 12:53pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

FishOnOne wrote:

The thing is as new successful technology was developed, it was typically better than what it was replacing.
Depends on the yardstick. TFL called it a fail. Yet people can't get enough of them. Where is the middle on this?

If the Lightning is truly a fail it will not last long.


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wanderingaimlessly

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Posted: 06/21/22 01:04pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

time2roll wrote:

FishOnOne wrote:

The thing is as new successful technology was developed, it was typically better than what it was replacing.
Depends on the yardstick. TFL called it a fail. Yet people can't get enough of them. Where is the middle on this?

If the Lightning is truly a fail it will not last long.


Not being snarky, real question's.
What percentage of pickups sold in America are just grocery getters? What percentage are used for towing or hauling less than once a month?

Success for the vehicle could be high even if the vehicle is nothing but a Tesla with a bed.

way2roll

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Posted: 06/21/22 01:58pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

time2roll wrote:

FishOnOne wrote:

The thing is as new successful technology was developed, it was typically better than what it was replacing.
Depends on the yardstick. TFL called it a fail. Yet people can't get enough of them. Where is the middle on this?

If the Lightning is truly a fail it will not last long.


I don't think it's a fail at all and it's surprising that's their take on it. It's a success in my book. But it's not better. It's different with it's own set of challenges.

The demand doesn't surprise me either. For what most people use their ICE F-150's for (short range grocery getters with the occasional haul or pulling a boat to the local ramp) it makes complete sense.

valhalla360

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Posted: 06/21/22 01:58pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

time2roll wrote:

rjstractor wrote:

Thermoguy wrote:

Semi trucks with EV can outperform a comparable ICE
Depends on your definition of "outperform". Compared with a conventional semi, the Freightliner eCascadia very likely accelerates faster. It may or may not climb hills faster- Freightliner's website lists HP options from 300 to 525. So probably a wash on hill climbing speeds. Tesla's website for their prototype Semi lists its speed on a 5% grade at 60 mph, which is good but not overwhelmingly so. Higher HP ICE trucks are close to that. But when it comes to doing what semi trucks actually are designed to do- move the freight hundreds of miles efficiently and productively, the electric trucks aren't close yet in performance. I say 'yet', because they will be some day. I hope you're right on the sodium ion batteries, because I don't see lithium as being sustainable once EV production expands a hundred fold.
For a commercial truck "performance" is often measured in cost per mile.


Nope.

If you produce a truck that gets $0.01/mile but it only can go 2 miles per day, trucking companies won't care to look at your truck.

A low cost per mile is only good if they can keep the miles per day high. Sitting at a truck stop waiting for batteries to charge is not making miles.


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valhalla360

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Posted: 06/21/22 02:01pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Lantley wrote:

I wonder if there were this many naysayers unwilling to give up there horse when the model T was introduced?
Remember there were not many paved roads or even construction equipment to build them.
Somehow we managed to build roads, gas stations, and an auto industry.
We even took it a step further and built the airplane
It won't be next week but I think we'll find a way to develop a battery and charging solutions over the next 20 years or so.
Color TV,cell phones,computers and the internet have all been introduced since I was born and have dramatically changed the way we live and think.
To think we cannot develop battery technology is silly.


The automobile won out even though the govt was against them adding many restrictions on them.

EVs are struggling to get any noticeable market share even thought the govt is heavily subsidizing them.

I have no doubt if EVs ever become a sizable percentage of the vehicle market, charging stations will follow (not without issues). Honestly for commuter cars and local delivery, it's getting close. For long distances, they just aren't there and there is no indication battery technology is improving enough to change the calculus.

valhalla360

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Posted: 06/21/22 02:05pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

time2roll wrote:

Yet people can't get enough of them.


With a massive fuel price shock...EVs have jumped to a whopping 5% of the market.

Prior to the shock with heavy subsidy, it was around 1.5% and pre 2018, it was below 0.5%.

If gas prices stay high for several years, I can see them gaining a 20-30% market share but that's a long way away and if prices settle down, we are likely to see sales drop back.

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