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rhagfo

Portland, OR

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Posted: 07/07/22 02:05pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

shelbyfv wrote:

I've edited out the troll comment. Let's just call it tiresome. Everyone knows battery capacity is what keeps EVs from being great for long distance driving. It's not news, few would dispute it. Can we just stipulate that and move on? As for "Our government wants us to all switch away from fossil fuels" it's hardly just the government. Every rational person who isn't a hermit understands this is something that has to be done.


Well with the electrical grid in it’s current state, it isn’t going to happen tomorrow.


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Posted: 07/07/22 02:15pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

rhagfo wrote:

shelbyfv wrote:

I've edited out the troll comment. Let's just call it tiresome. Everyone knows battery capacity is what keeps EVs from being great for long distance driving. It's not news, few would dispute it. Can we just stipulate that and move on? As for "Our government wants us to all switch away from fossil fuels" it's hardly just the government. Every rational person who isn't a hermit understands this is something that has to be done.


Well with the electrical grid in it’s current state, it isn’t going to happen tomorrow.


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shelbyfv

TN

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Posted: 07/07/22 02:24pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

rhagfo wrote:

shelbyfv wrote:

I've edited out the troll comment. Let's just call it tiresome. Everyone knows battery capacity is what keeps EVs from being great for long distance driving. It's not news, few would dispute it. Can we just stipulate that and move on? As for "Our government wants us to all switch away from fossil fuels" it's hardly just the government. Every rational person who isn't a hermit understands this is something that has to be done.


Well with the electrical grid in it’s current state, it isn’t going to happen tomorrow.
Actually, the grid isn't as much of an issue as some imagine. Easy to Google if you are interested.

RoyJ

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Posted: 07/07/22 03:52pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

propchef wrote:

Again, fuel burns (releasing energy), and lithium is part of a storage system. Apples to bananas. Lithium is rechargeable. Diesel isn't.

Your example doesn't make logical sense.


Not sure if I follow what you're saying.

When comparing batteries to liquid fuel, the only meaningful comparison is energy density.

The power density of liquid fuel is virtually unlimited. Example, you have big enough fuel injectors and oxygen (top fuel dragster), you can output 8000 hp from a 10 gallon tank.

Not for long of course, but now we're talking about energy...

Huntindog

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Posted: 07/07/22 03:56pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

shelbyfv wrote:

I've edited out the troll comment. Let's just call it tiresome. Everyone knows battery capacity is what keeps EVs from being great for long distance driving. It's not news, few would dispute it. Can we just stipulate that and move on? As for "Our government wants us to all switch away from fossil fuels" it's hardly just the government. Every rational person who isn't a hermit understands this is something that has to be done.
The electric car has ALWAYS suffered from the range issue. Someone in 1900 or so would have been thrilled to have what is available today... But that was going up against horses and that newfangled ICE.... IOW expectations were a Lot lower. Todays vehicles, both EVs and ICEs perform far better than those of a hundred plus years ago.... But expectations are a lot higher today.... And the fact is that ICEs are still much better in the range/refueling time aspect. The more things change, the more they stay the same.


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Bird Freak

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Posted: 07/07/22 03:58pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Are your EV's going to be disposable vehicles in a few years? With the cost of new batteries to replace out of warranty it will be like trying to sell a used car without a engine. I have yet to see any battery that will not lose charge capacity over the years or even weeks with heavy usage. I would guess after about 5 years when you recharge it would be like just getting a half tank of liquid fuel.
Just makes me wonder.


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shelbyfv

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Posted: 07/07/22 04:59pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Huntindog wrote:

And the fact is that ICEs are still much better in the range/refueling time aspect.
Absolutely. I don't think anyone would disagree with that. ICEs are familiar, convenient, plenty of infrastructure etc. Problem is, everyone knows we can't keep using them as we do now. What alternative is on the horizon other than EVs? We'd better hope they can make progress on the well known issues or all of us who enjoy recreational driving will be SOL.

Thermoguy

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Posted: 07/07/22 05:37pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Bird Freak wrote:

Are your EV's going to be disposable vehicles in a few years? With the cost of new batteries to replace out of warranty it will be like trying to sell a used car without a engine. I have yet to see any battery that will not lose charge capacity over the years or even weeks with heavy usage. I would guess after about 5 years when you recharge it would be like just getting a half tank of liquid fuel.
Just makes me wonder.


An EV is not any more disposable than your current car or truck. Battery manufacturers are currently suggesting 300000 miles with about 10% battery loss - so with a 300 mile range, that's a loss of 30 miles, most of it in the first couple years. So, if you can go 300000 miles without a major overhaul, then what, new engine? Isn't that about the same? The difference is the EV needs a new battery because the range isn't as good, now maybe down from 300 to 220 or 200 after 300K to 500K miles. Our ICE vehicles die and need a new engine, not reduced gas mileage... I don't have an EV but think it would be great as a grocery getter at this point. I see the day when our RV's will be towed by an EV 1 ton truck, maybe extra battery packs in the trailer. Imagine if your trailer had a battery pack that could run all your trailer needs for 5-10 days and recharge your truck to get that 100-200 miles from your campsite to home... sounds good to me. As battery technology evolves, or fuel cell, or some new technology, its going to be a win for the person that wants to be off grid.

And even more to the point - what's to say that by the time your EV needs that new battery that there isn't a replacement that's 1/3 the price or less. That's what everyone is working on, more power, less cost. How's that working with ICE vehicles, are engines or fuel getting lower in cost? Once we get away from Chinese Lithium, things should be looking up. Right now a NW company just got a grant for $400 mil or something to expand their production of Sodium Ion car batteries... That's getting away from Lithium and bringing it to the US.

vern kelly

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Posted: 07/07/22 05:38pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Modern Man/Woman cannot live without the "juice". Both fuel and electricity flavors. It's the corner we are painted in for ~100 years since the industrial revolution. Both juices will be consumed for a long time.

I believe Tesla warrants their batteries for 8 years keeping around 75% of charge capacity. Time is a bigger factor than miles especially for RVers. Could be a problem for the used electric car market. The used car market is much bigger than the new car market.

Average car in the USA is ~12 years old. In Cali might be 15.

* This post was edited 07/07/22 05:52pm by vern kelly *


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Turtle n Peeps

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Posted: 07/07/22 06:19pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

shelbyfv wrote:

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

shelbyfv wrote:

What are you towing with currently?

3/4 ton Dmax.
Has anyone prohibited you from driving it or buying fuel? Didn't think so. You seem to be the only one on the forum who is worried that someone will take your truck away and make you tow with an EV. Propchef has owned you on this one, btw.


Where did I ever say anyone is going to prohibit me from driving my truck? Go on, quote me. Didn't think so.

BTW Propchef didn't own anybody. The Lightning had an energy density problem and I pointed that out. He dose not seem to understand this. I don't think he even understands the term? I tried my best to explain this but he does not seem to understand. Then I gave him a video with an engineer that tried to explain the problem in the simplest terms. He still does not grasp it. No problem.

Most of the people that don't understand and more than likely don't even own an electric vehicle....much like Propchef.

Like I said above; this is a RV towing forum. For me the five most important things when tow an RV are #1. horse power #2. stopping power, #3. range #4. cost/mile and #5. capability to control RV in back of me.

If anyone of the above are missing you're going to have a very bad experience. The Lightning did great on all of the above except #3. That darn #3 keeps on getting in the way of towing things with a battery powered vehicle. LI batteries just don't have the energy density and more than likely never will. Will some other battery come out and solve this problem? Maybe, maybe not.


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