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valhalla360

No paticular place.

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Posted: 07/29/22 10:44am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ReneeG wrote:

Thanks! We have two eu2000i we parallel for AC mainly. I read that gasoline provides more power than propane, and even though we will be installing a SoftStartUp, your comment is one to consider regarding. We've always had one Honda 2000 mainly for backup, but have never had to use it with our solar setup. The goal of two was for the AC in the rare instance that we really need it at lower elevations. We had one instance dry camping near Jackson, WY over the Labor Day weekend that it was so hot we were miserable. It's nice to know that with the two, should we ever need it for backup for the house, we can.


With two of the 2000w units paralleled, it should be plenty of power to handle the air/con even on propane. Some people jump thru hoops and get a single 2000w unit to work but it's marginal, so the derating from propane may be an issue.

Our most common use has been in campgrounds when it's so hot the park voltage drops too low to use without risk of damage to our rig. Only once have we had a complaint from an owner but when I offered to happily shut it down if he can provide the 30amp @ 120v power we paid for...he said, never mind.


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Skibane

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Posted: 07/29/22 11:08am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Gasoline quality is a consideration.

Ethanol in gasoline reduces its energy content, and thus the generator's power output. Generator manufacturers test and rate their products using ethanol-free gas, so this power reduction isn't reflected in their specifications.

The upshot is that a generator with marginal power output using ethanol-free gas will have even more marginal output using gas with ethanol in it.

The maximum amount of ethanol allowed in gasoline was recently increased to 15 percent - so this is going to be more of an issue than it previously was.

Since ethanol tends to shorten the storage life of gasoline, many folks avoid using it in generators. Unfortunately, in areas where ethanol-free gas is available, it usually costs quite a bit more. That extra expense needs to be included when comparing fuel costs.

Gdetrailer

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Posted: 07/29/22 01:00pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Skibane wrote:

Gasoline quality is a consideration.

Ethanol in gasoline reduces its energy content, and thus the generator's power output. Generator manufacturers test and rate their products using ethanol-free gas, so this power reduction isn't reflected in their specifications.

The upshot is that a generator with marginal power output using ethanol-free gas will have even more marginal output using gas with ethanol in it.

The maximum amount of ethanol allowed in gasoline was recently increased to 15 percent - so this is going to be more of an issue than it previously was.

Since ethanol tends to shorten the storage life of gasoline, many folks avoid using it in generators. Unfortunately, in areas where ethanol-free gas is available, it usually costs quite a bit more. That extra expense needs to be included when comparing fuel costs.


Nope.

I have bunches of small engine manuals that says other wise..

Here is page from my Echo CS-490 chain saw for example..

[image]
[image]Click For Full-Size Image.

Note the sections I penciled in red.

Most small engine manufacturers simply warn to not use E15 (15% Ethanol) or E85 (85% Ethanol

Ethanol laced fuel is not new, has been done quietly for many yrs well before I was born. I remember one big open attempt to switch everyone over to E10 in the 1970s, it was called "Gasohol" and was a 100% dismal failure.

I suggest you take a history lesson from HERE which points out that Ethanol has been considered and used for engine fuel since the 1800s..

"In 1826, Samuel Morey invented the first internal combustion engine that was built to run on alcohol — probably made from grain. Later, Henry Ford championed alcohol fuels made from grain, potatoes or cellulose. In the 1880s, he designed one of the earliest automobiles to burn alcohol."

Henry Ford ALSO experimented with Ethanol as any farmer could technically make their own Ethanol from crops..

Any engine built in the last 15 yrs are specifically designed to operate on E10 gas. They had to, the manufacturers had zero choice in this if they wished to sell anything with an engine in the state of California with their fuel and emissions restrictions.

Will a engine perform better with non Ethanol laced gas? Maybe, but it also may not since there are slight variables in the fuel and small engines have absolutely no computer to recalibrate fuel delivery and spark advance.

Sure, straight gasoline has some merit, however, the Ethanol in the fuel delivers additional Oxygen (Oxygenate) which replaced the use of MTBEs and Leaded Gas.

Modern engines are tuned in fuel delivery and even the timing for use with unleaded E10 (10% ETHANOL) fuels.

If there is any question about what fuel can be used in your engine, consult the owners manual.

As far as storage, DRAIN THE CARB.

No fuel left in the carb means much less chances of Ethanol causing a clogged jet.

For small engines like my Chainsaws and weed cutter, I run till empty or dump out any leftover fuel if not going to be used for more than a month.

Generators, well I turn off the fuel valve at the tank and drain the carb..

Been doing this for 30 yrs now and now issues.

cptqueeg

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Posted: 07/29/22 01:22pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

One point that hasn't been made is the fuel containers, LP vs gas. I would much rather deal w the LP containers than gas cans, recognizing the ease of obtaining gas vs LP.

time2roll

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Posted: 07/29/22 02:12pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I switched to propane as my gasoline generator mostly sat unused.


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ktmrfs

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Posted: 07/29/22 03:39pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Skibane wrote:

Gasoline quality is a consideration.

Ethanol in gasoline reduces its energy content, and thus the generator's power output. Generator manufacturers test and rate their products using ethanol-free gas, so this power reduction isn't reflected in their specifications.

The upshot is that a generator with marginal power output using ethanol-free gas will have even more marginal output using gas with ethanol in it.

The maximum amount of ethanol allowed in gasoline was recently increased to 15 percent - so this is going to be more of an issue than it previously was.

Since ethanol tends to shorten the storage life of gasoline, many folks avoid using it in generators. Unfortunately, in areas where ethanol-free gas is available, it usually costs quite a bit more. That extra expense needs to be included when comparing fuel costs.


If the mfg designed the engine to run on 10% ethanol AND adjusted the carb correctly you won't see a decrease in power output. You WILL see a increase in fuel consumption (about 3%). In fact properly designed an engine running on alcohol can have more power than gasoline, just higher fuel consumption. Don't confuse energy content/gallon with power output, they are two completely seperate issues.


your statement on 15% ethanol is misleading.
1) yes 15% is allowed but ONLY if 10% pumps are also available
2) In many locations it is ONLY allowed during parts of the year
3) We've been traveling all over the west/midwest and south and have yet to see a pump with 15% ethanol

IMHO there is more FUD in the 10% ethanol that actual issues. Yes, 25+ year old gas engines can have problems with 10% ethanol, but modern engines it is seldom an issue even if carb's are left full for extended periods of time. In the last 20 years I've very seldom drained a tank on a small engine including my honda generators with 10% ethanol even when it was going to sit likely for 6 months and never had an issue.

What I have found is that many of the small engines on yard equipment that doesn't have a fuel bowl and float what one thinks is a fuel problem is just those el cheapo carbs hitting end of life. When a brand new OEM carb is $10-$15 there can't be much in them. When I've replaced them I found the throttle shaft was wobling all over and letting air/fuel leak. fuel bulb not working etc.


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MrWizard

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Posted: 07/29/22 08:39pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

We had DP with propane powered Onan, on a summer trip in 2012, using the roof top A/C, we had to refill the built in lp tank every 3 days, that meant moving the MH to the lp seller every 3 days,
Currently with this gasser, im using a champion portable dual Fuel generator, i have not used the propane option, propane is $3 gallon, Reg 87 octane is over $5.29 gal and E85 Flex Fuel "Ethanol" is $3.39 gal, im burning E85 in the Champion,
Ethanol 88kbtu gal , gas 116kbtu gal, 25% less energy, but cost 40% less $$, the engine runs cleaner,
But too keep it from being lean and running rough, i adjust the choke for smooth running , varnish has not been an issue , I'm full time , so No long term storage for the generator or fuel, does not have the chance to absorb moisture or dry up, gasoline or Ethanol,
For me gas has always been a better option than LP, and with current fuel prices, Ethanol is my best option, Gasoline is putting me in the poor house, its been busting my bank for months
Your experience might be different, its the fuel pricing and amount you will use versus availability and convenience, fixed location with natural gas or 500gal lp tank, against portable use locations storage transport etc.


I can explain it to you.
But I Can Not understand it for you !

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ReneeG

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Posted: 07/30/22 06:01am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Thanks for all the feedback. It's been very helpful.


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Sjm9911

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Posted: 07/30/22 06:23am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

If using gas, and worried about the ethanol, I am and think it clogs the carbs more, you can pre treat the gas. I always add fuel injector cleaner and stabil to the gas cans when filling. This way I never forget if I need to add them later or if the stuff sits a bit. If you like the seafoam , that may work also.


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bgum

South Louisiana

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Posted: 07/30/22 08:24am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

We live in south Louisiana and can nearly smell the gulf air on normal days and can definitely smell it on squall days. We have never had a problem with moisture in our ethanol gas.

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