Ford 6.7 with spun connecting rod bearing

[Cradz350]

Hello to all,
I am new to this forum. I own a 2015 F-250 with the 6.7. I was in the process of hooking the truck to my 5th wheel (April 15th) for a spring break trip when the truck started to shutter. It felt like I was hit by a gust of wind, but when I looked at the dash; the check engine light was on. A check of the code showed a PO269 or cylinder 3 is not contributing to engine power. I also noticed an audible tapping sound. Fast forward; the dealer (Hertrich Ford of Milford Delaware) has determined the cylinder 3 and 7 connecting rod bearings have spun and I will need a new engine. They are working to determine if Ford will cover the cost. The truck is religiously maintained to include Rotella T6 every 5k miles. I am a little shocked to say the least that this engine catastrophically failed at such low mileage...especially a lower end failure.

With all that said, has anyone else experienced a similar failure and if yes; what was the root cause?

It should also be noted this truck is completely stock and has not been modified with any performance upgrades. The dealer tech stated bearing failure is usually due to oil starvation. (I am not here to disagree, and the dealership has been great to work with), but the oil was full at the time of tear-down. At 20k miles there was a vacuum pump failure that dumped during operation 70 percent of the truck's oil. The service manager at that dealership, when asked if the leak damaged the engine stated "we took out the bad part and put in the good part; what else do you need to know"...so no determination was ever made for other damage.

Anyway, this whole situation sucks with one silver lining. I did borrow my dad's '06 power stroke and saved the family trip. I forgot how much I missed the sound and raw power of the 6.0. My brother has my old 6.0 that I got coming home from a deployment in 2003...I definitely have a soft spot for Ford diesels.

Sincerely
Chris Radziewicz

[Grit_dog]

StirCrazy wrote:

Grit dog wrote:


And why would 5W40 be "recommended" but 15W40 cause engine damage.


But jsu tme talking....

thats a easy one, increased oil flow on start up when the oil is cold. tighter tolerences mean less free oil pooling in the berring as the engine drains down overnight, also makes it harder for the oil to flow through when thick. so basicly 5W40 will flow down to 5 degrees and 15W will flow down to 15 degrees, so even at 15 degrees the 5w will flow better providing a faster film on the berrings resulting in less startup dammage.

Steve

Nope, and the weight numbers do not refer to temperature. The numbers 10W 5W etc represent a certain viscosity at a certain temperature.
And at near 0F, a 15W oil has the same max viscosity as say a 5W oil at about -15F.
I don’t see winter viscosity being an issue until very cold temps. Just like any vehicle.

And fwiw, the only explanation of what the 15W issue is, is can cause deposits to form in the lifters (hyd valve adjusters, lol).

[shelbyfv]

I've looked through the 7 pages twice and can't find the mileage of this truck. Someone please direct me. I did find that it is six and a half years old.

[StirCrazy]

Grit dog wrote:


And why would 5W40 be "recommended" but 15W40 cause engine damage.


But jsu tme talking....

thats a easy one, increased oil flow on start up when the oil is cold. tighter tolerences mean less free oil pooling in the berring as the engine drains down overnight, also makes it harder for the oil to flow through when thick. so basicly 5W40 will flow down to 5 degrees and 15W will flow down to 15 degrees, so even at 15 degrees the 5w will flow better providing a faster film on the berrings resulting in less startup dammage.

Steve

[Cummins12V98]

You guys that cry about your 68RFE must not run TH BobTail. I towed 29K combined with mine for well over half if it's miles and shifted firm and crisp and ran cool with ZERO issues.

AISIN clunky? Not if my book towing 35K combined with solid shifts and NO dead pedal.

Both trans need to have the SHITE ran out of them new and they will perform great!

[Cummins12V98]

Cradz350 wrote:

Grit dog wrote:
So Flowerjokes are still finicky about oil? Nothing new.
U could run a Cummins on some goose grease and French fry oil and the only downside is getting hungry when you’re pulling grades and it smells like a fried turkey!
Lol

Love a Ford truck with Cummins...but in a Dodge with their trans...is just a different pile of problems

Please explain!

[cummins2014]

FishOnOne wrote:

Grit dog wrote:

FishOnOne wrote:

Grit dog wrote:
So Flowerjokes are still finicky about oil? Nothing new.
U could run a Cummins on some goose grease and French fry oil and the only downside is getting hungry when you’re pulling grades and it smells like a fried turkey!
Lol

Run the wrong oil in a 19+ and you may have a cummapart. :E

NUMBER: 09-011-20 GROUP: 09 - Engine DATE: July 24, 2020 This bulletin is supplied as technical information only and is not an authorization for repair.
• 2019 model year, and newer vehicles, it is recommended to use 10W-30 engine oil such as Mopar, Shell Rotella and Shell Rimula that meets FCA Material Standard MS-10902, and the API CK-4 engine oil category is required. Products meeting Cummins CES 20081 may also be used. NOTE: Always refer to service information and/or owner’s manual for exact engine oil recommendations. CAUTION! 15W-40 grade oil CAN NOT be used in any 2019 model year or newer 6.7L equipped vehicles due to the new designed valve train of this engine. If this oil is used, it will cause deposits to form in the Hydraulic Valve Lash Adjusters leading to undesirable noise, and/or engine damage.

May want to pass on the Goose greese going forwards that may cause deposits in the valve lash adjusters. :W

So it has hydraulic lifters...big deal. Don't have experience with these newer engines, but some notice that was published 2 years ago hasn't made it into the owners manuals?
Diesel Supplement recommends 10-30 or 5-40 SYN. CK4 or Cummins CES20081 spec.
And says nothing with respect to NOT using the age old standard 15W40.
Synthetic is not even required or reccomended except for extreme low ambient temps, in fact it says change syn the same as dino oil.
And virtually every CK4 compatible oil is also CES 20081 as well.

It would take alot more ton convince me that 15W40 is in anyway harmful to those engines or has the propensity to stick or collapse a lifter.

(Like our old SRT that "required" 0W40 synthetic. And the new one for that fact. Old one had 150k on it when we sold it to the next owner and still ran perfectly, didn't use excessive oil, felt like it had all it's horseys still....after a steady diet of 100k miles of Delo and Valvoline blue 15-40 or whatever else was on super sale)

That said, even the latest Cummins still way less finicky on oil weight/quality/service life than any Flowerjoke since the early HEUI injection pumps through present day.

Put some 15W40 in a 19+ cummins and see how it sounds!

Or get on TDR , and do some reading .

[Grit_dog]

FishOnOne wrote:


Put some 15W40 in a 19+ cummins and see how it sounds!

Honest question, what does it sound like and why is it an issue?
(Not "it can cause deposits to form in the lifters" but what is the difference between Cummins hyd lifters and every other engine?)

And why would 5W40 be "recommended" but 15W40 cause engine damage.

I'm no expert, but understand engines fairly well and this doesn't compute.

Edit, I can understand if tighter tolerances, maybe very small bores in the pushrods or lifters themselves (not unlike the Ford Triton engines, one of the first to recommend lightweight oil back in the day). And with that I can see it causing pressurizing issues upon cold starts in cold weather (hence the 5W cold weather recommendation). And the "noise" you speak of is likely? lifters that are slow to pressurize initially? Maybe?
But I can't wrap my head aorund the propensity for "deposits" to form or any issues when NOT in cold weather.

But jsu tme talking....

[Grit_dog]

""Loyal customer" just means a sucker that will keep coming back, no matter how poorly we treat them."


It's amazing how many people DON'T understand this about big corporations...

[spoon059]

Cradz350 wrote:
I love the truck, but this has really made me question future Ford's.

And why wouldn't you love the truck. Its been so dependable...

Cradz350 wrote:
This is not a great way to keep a loyal customer.

Why would they care. You and your family already owned one of the most problematic engines Ford ever produced and then immediately went out and bought another. Going on a hunch here, you're going to eventually replace this Ford with another one.

They don't need to worry about "customer loyalty" when they have so many customers with blind allegiance to a brand that they will continue to purchase that brand despite major problems.

I've owned a GM car, a Ford truck, an Isuzu SUV, a Ford SUV, a Honda car, a Toyota car, a Toyota truck and now a Ram truck and Kia minivan. I have ZERO brand loyalty, because that brand won't be loyal back to you. I buy the best vehicle for my needs at the best price I can get at the time of purchase. The next vehicle will be the best vehicle for my needs at the best price I can get at the time of that purchase.

"Loyal customer" just means a sucker that will keep coming back, no matter how poorly we treat them.

Cradz350 wrote:
I hear a lot of people bash the 6.0...mine never died this bad.

Case in point...

[Cradz350]

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

Cradz350 wrote:

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

Cradz350 wrote:
New turbo is part of the oil system...bearings metal shavings could have damaged.

That's all good except there is no reason to replace the turbo when you have a nice big oil filter that filters all of the oil that enters the bearings or turbo.

Now if they wanted to replace the oil pump; that's a different story...

I guess it would depend on the path the oil takes with regards to the turbo, bearings and filter. I am less annoyed with the turbo replacement since it's difficult to remove on the 6.7 and a preemptive approach is not a bad thing. My bigger issue is the doubling of the engine price. As far as repairing the engine; the same replace over repair sentiment was also offered by two local private shops. Not enough meat for over bore and over-sized pistons. The engine isn't exactly a real heavy duty diesel. The other issue is getting Ford to do a root cause analysis. There hasn't been a determination to this point on why the bearing cooked...nor has the engine been torn down...of course this is because they already know why...

I'd love to buy an engine and install, but at this point considering the cab is lifted off the truck and engine is already removed, I may be stuck with Ford in perpetual limbo. This is not a great way to keep a loyal customer.

Ya, all engine oil is filtered before it sees any engine parts except the oil pump.

In any event it would be a good idea for you to listen to this video about the 6.7 Ford diesel.

This guy really knows his stuff and sees a ton of these engines and will talk about the various failure points. It's really good to see all of the failure points of this engine that he talks about.

If you just want to see to part where he talks about "seeing a ton of bearing failure" just go to 42:42 and see what he has to say. I would watch the whole video if I were you though because this guy is very informative.

Anyway, good luck and I hope you get past this so you can take your RV out for a little time off.

This was a great video...I actually called them a few weeks ago to see the cost of a drop in engine. I like their motto "stock is not an option" This issue with skinny connecting rods (I'm sure is for engine spool up speed), tight bearing clearances and a crazy oil flow...the engine has a design flaw to say the least. Beyond that...ford has a major customer service issue since no one is willing or able to move this process along. I have borrowed my brother's truck a few times to use my RV...glad we got a few trips in as this is my oldest daughter's last summer before college. Ford has really let me down with this whole situation.

[Cradz350]

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

Cradz350 wrote:
If your truck engine has a catastrophic failure you won't think it's hilarious.
I appreciate you defending your truck...or math; but flagship engines shouldn't have a major failure issue like this.

Even Ford's CEO agrees with you Cradz350.

It's only going to get worse...

"we monitor social media for problems....." :B :B :B Well I guess that's one way to do business.....:R:R:R

That's an interesting video for sure..

[FishOnOne]

Grit dog wrote:

FishOnOne wrote:

Grit dog wrote:
So Flowerjokes are still finicky about oil? Nothing new.
U could run a Cummins on some goose grease and French fry oil and the only downside is getting hungry when you’re pulling grades and it smells like a fried turkey!
Lol

Run the wrong oil in a 19+ and you may have a cummapart. :E

NUMBER: 09-011-20 GROUP: 09 - Engine DATE: July 24, 2020 This bulletin is supplied as technical information only and is not an authorization for repair.
• 2019 model year, and newer vehicles, it is recommended to use 10W-30 engine oil such as Mopar, Shell Rotella and Shell Rimula that meets FCA Material Standard MS-10902, and the API CK-4 engine oil category is required. Products meeting Cummins CES 20081 may also be used. NOTE: Always refer to service information and/or owner’s manual for exact engine oil recommendations. CAUTION! 15W-40 grade oil CAN NOT be used in any 2019 model year or newer 6.7L equipped vehicles due to the new designed valve train of this engine. If this oil is used, it will cause deposits to form in the Hydraulic Valve Lash Adjusters leading to undesirable noise, and/or engine damage.

May want to pass on the Goose greese going forwards that may cause deposits in the valve lash adjusters. :W

So it has hydraulic lifters...big deal. Don't have experience with these newer engines, but some notice that was published 2 years ago hasn't made it into the owners manuals?
Diesel Supplement recommends 10-30 or 5-40 SYN. CK4 or Cummins CES20081 spec.
And says nothing with respect to NOT using the age old standard 15W40.
Synthetic is not even required or reccomended except for extreme low ambient temps, in fact it says change syn the same as dino oil.
And virtually every CK4 compatible oil is also CES 20081 as well.

It would take alot more ton convince me that 15W40 is in anyway harmful to those engines or has the propensity to stick or collapse a lifter.

(Like our old SRT that "required" 0W40 synthetic. And the new one for that fact. Old one had 150k on it when we sold it to the next owner and still ran perfectly, didn't use excessive oil, felt like it had all it's horseys still....after a steady diet of 100k miles of Delo and Valvoline blue 15-40 or whatever else was on super sale)

That said, even the latest Cummins still way less finicky on oil weight/quality/service life than any Flowerjoke since the early HEUI injection pumps through present day.

Put some 15W40 in a 19+ cummins and see how it sounds!

[Grit_dog]

FishOnOne wrote:

Grit dog wrote:
So Flowerjokes are still finicky about oil? Nothing new.
U could run a Cummins on some goose grease and French fry oil and the only downside is getting hungry when you’re pulling grades and it smells like a fried turkey!
Lol

Run the wrong oil in a 19+ and you may have a cummapart. :E

NUMBER: 09-011-20 GROUP: 09 - Engine DATE: July 24, 2020 This bulletin is supplied as technical information only and is not an authorization for repair.
• 2019 model year, and newer vehicles, it is recommended to use 10W-30 engine oil such as Mopar, Shell Rotella and Shell Rimula that meets FCA Material Standard MS-10902, and the API CK-4 engine oil category is required. Products meeting Cummins CES 20081 may also be used. NOTE: Always refer to service information and/or owner’s manual for exact engine oil recommendations. CAUTION! 15W-40 grade oil CAN NOT be used in any 2019 model year or newer 6.7L equipped vehicles due to the new designed valve train of this engine. If this oil is used, it will cause deposits to form in the Hydraulic Valve Lash Adjusters leading to undesirable noise, and/or engine damage.

May want to pass on the Goose greese going forwards that may cause deposits in the valve lash adjusters. :W

So it has hydraulic lifters...big deal. Don't have experience with these newer engines, but some notice that was published 2 years ago hasn't made it into the owners manuals?
Diesel Supplement recommends 10-30 or 5-40 SYN. CK4 or Cummins CES20081 spec.
And says nothing with respect to NOT using the age old standard 15W40.
Synthetic is not even required or reccomended except for extreme low ambient temps, in fact it says change syn the same as dino oil.
And virtually every CK4 compatible oil is also CES 20081 as well.

It would take alot more ton convince me that 15W40 is in anyway harmful to those engines or has the propensity to stick or collapse a lifter.

(Like our old SRT that "required" 0W40 synthetic. And the new one for that fact. Old one had 150k on it when we sold it to the next owner and still ran perfectly, didn't use excessive oil, felt like it had all it's horseys still....after a steady diet of 100k miles of Delo and Valvoline blue 15-40 or whatever else was on super sale)

That said, even the latest Cummins still way less finicky on oil weight/quality/service life than any Flowerjoke since the early HEUI injection pumps through present day.

[FishOnOne]

Grit dog wrote:
So Flowerjokes are still finicky about oil? Nothing new.
U could run a Cummins on some goose grease and French fry oil and the only downside is getting hungry when you’re pulling grades and it smells like a fried turkey!
Lol

Run the wrong oil in a 19+ and you may have a cummapart. :E

NUMBER: 09-011-20 GROUP: 09 - Engine DATE: July 24, 2020 This bulletin is supplied as technical information only and is not an authorization for repair.
• 2019 model year, and newer vehicles, it is recommended to use 10W-30 engine oil such as Mopar, Shell Rotella and Shell Rimula that meets FCA Material Standard MS-10902, and the API CK-4 engine oil category is required. Products meeting Cummins CES 20081 may also be used. NOTE: Always refer to service information and/or owner’s manual for exact engine oil recommendations. CAUTION! 15W-40 grade oil CAN NOT be used in any 2019 model year or newer 6.7L equipped vehicles due to the new designed valve train of this engine. If this oil is used, it will cause deposits to form in the Hydraulic Valve Lash Adjusters leading to undesirable noise, and/or engine damage.

May want to pass on the Goose greese going forwards that may cause deposits in the valve lash adjusters. :W