Quality control?

[yellow_dog]

We spent last 2 weekends looking at new 5th wheels. Both brands we were looking at had numerous issues, from slides not working to torn vinyl flooring, seals on slides and trim hanging, to valances that had fallen. I would think the manufacturers would want things being gone over before either leaving the factory or before being shown at dealerships. Both were higher end RVs...I don't get it. I would estimate that out all of the RVs we looked at, more then half had issues.

[Pbutler97]

goducks10 wrote:

C Schomer wrote:
“ Quality has gone down the last 2 to 4 years“… that’s very scary! I haven’t been to an RV show since the winter shows in Phoenix 2017 and even the 100k+ Fivers didn’t have a speck of solid wood anywhere in the interiors.
And then I read about bathroom doors that won’t even stay latched when going down the road and toy hauler rear doorways that are racked and the doors are hard to close. I will gladly keep my outdated natural oak interior and not a bit of pressed wood in sight.
My old Sunnybrook was also a bargain at $19,000.

Not sure what 5er's you looked at but every single one I looked at recently at a local RV show had real wood all over the place. Cabinet doors and drawers were solid wood with stain. All the cabinet framing was real wood with a faux vinyl wrap.

That's if you consider MDF faced with a thin plywood veneer then wrapped with vinyl, basically contact paper "real wood". They only face the MDF with a thin plywood veneer to get the vinyl to adhere.

A lot of brands have "real wood" for cabinet doors and drawer fronts, but that's where real wood ends. Everything else is either MDF, particle board, plywood, or some combination of all. If they used real wood everywhere the cost would go through the roof. The only reason they get away with real wood cabinet doors and drawer fronts is because the door styles, raised panels, and drawer fronts are all so small they can be made from what is essentially scrap. Then they can put real wood somewhere in a brochure and not get sued for false advertising. Even large panels such as refrigerator cabinet sides or dinette bases are vinyl faced garbage in most. If you think you're getting all this real wood from any of the big manufacturers you mistaken.

[goducks10]

C Schomer wrote:
“ Quality has gone down the last 2 to 4 years“… that’s very scary! I haven’t been to an RV show since the winter shows in Phoenix 2017 and even the 100k+ Fivers didn’t have a speck of solid wood anywhere in the interiors.
And then I read about bathroom doors that won’t even stay latched when going down the road and toy hauler rear doorways that are racked and the doors are hard to close. I will gladly keep my outdated natural oak interior and not a bit of pressed wood in sight.
My old Sunnybrook was also a bargain at $19,000.

Not sure what 5er's you looked at but every single one I looked at recently at a local RV show had real wood all over the place. Cabinet doors and drawers were solid wood with stain. All the cabinet framing was real wood with a faux vinyl wrap.

[Pbutler97]

Pbutler97 wrote:

MNRon wrote:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.yahoo.com/amphtml/lifestyle/shoddy-unhappy-buyers-near-death-071501136.html?fbclid=IwAR3HN3n9J3-kNjdCqI9IaAI7KvyLsHdbPNEPiLi9GRnbru_uW0ZaUMok3MQ

Link

Here is the link, that's a great article, a real eye opener but I for one am not surprised at all.


Here's the link to the video the wife made while their RV was up in flames along the road. Link

LOL

And the RV Industry responds. Don't worry, all is great, they build the best products ever.

Link


"Typically, we at RVBusiness aggregate excerpts of media reports concerning the RV industry. We have chosen not to in this case for several reasons, first and foremost that it is attempting to portray the entire industry based on the alleged anecdotes of a very small minority. Our purpose here is simply to make you, our reader, aware the reports exist."


For its part, the RV Industry Association (RVIA) issued the following statement:

“For nearly a year the RV Industry Association answered questions from and worked with the reporter from the Indy Star, emphasizing the high priority the RV industry places on workplace safety and the safety of our products. Regrettably, much of what was provided was not included in the resulting stories."

[Pbutler97]

MNRon wrote:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.yahoo.com/amphtml/lifestyle/shoddy-unhappy-buyers-near-death-071501136.html?fbclid=IwAR3HN3n9J3-kNjdCqI9IaAI7KvyLsHdbPNEPiLi9GRnbru_uW0ZaUMok3MQ

Link

Here is the link, that's a great article, a real eye opener but I for one am not surprised at all.


Here's the link to the video the wife made while their RV was up in flames along the road. Link

[MNRon]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.yahoo.com/amphtml/lifestyle/shoddy-unhappy-buyers-near-death-071501136.html?fbclid=IwAR3HN3n9J3-kNjdCqI9IaAI7KvyLsHdbPNEPiLi9GRnbru_uW0ZaUMok3MQ

[C_Schomer]

“ Quality has gone down the last 2 to 4 years“… that’s very scary! I haven’t been to an RV show since the winter shows in Phoenix 2017 and even the 100k+ Fivers didn’t have a speck of solid wood anywhere in the interiors.
And then I read about bathroom doors that won’t even stay latched when going down the road and toy hauler rear doorways that are racked and the doors are hard to close. I will gladly keep my outdated natural oak interior and not a bit of pressed wood in sight.
My old Sunnybrook was also a bargain at $19,000.

[Pbutler97]

dougrainer wrote:
1. NHTSA recalls are FOUND after the units are built and in the field
2. Have you ever looked at the hundreds(maybe thousands) of NHTSA recalls for Automobiles?
3. It is against the law to sell new a RECALLED NHTSA unit. It must be fixed prior to sale. In some States, it is against the law to sell a used unit in a NHTSA recall.
4. I agree that in the past 3 years, quality has gone way down. This is because the RV industry has had the biggest surge in RV history for new sales and the attitude is to shove them out to get the sale now.
5. This in my opinion, will lead to massive RV customer dissatisfaction, because a LOT of these new sales were newbies that had no idea about the RV lifestyle. They are under 50 and have come to expect no defects at all(30 years of mercedes/Lexus/Asian quality).
6. There will be a massive amount of used sales by owners of less than 3 year old RV's. Already in the DFW market CW has mounted a HUGE used campaign to sell their used Trailers. I believe they are selling because the traditional Wholesalers are saturated with previous years of buying the used units and will not buy any more from the dealers. Doug

The number of recalls for automobiles has nothing to do with the discussion. As far as when a recall issue on an RV is FOUND, who cares. The issue was created at some point and that was either during "engineering" (word used very lightly), selection of materials, or during manufacture and assembly. The RV Industry owns all of it. Don't try and deflect the blame.

The fact that recall issues are not found until the RV is purchased and used speaks volumes for the total joke which is quality control in the RV Industry. Especially when you read through what a lot of the recalls are for. Propane leaks, water tanks falling out on the road, lights installed too close to furnace vents so they melt, etc.

The best build issue I've ever seen was a Rockwood signature series TT at a dealer. A pricy TT as far as TT's go. It had the business ends of 3 screws protruding through the outside of the fiberglass sidewall about 3/4". These were the screws used to attach a wall cabinet and the Amish Crafts Person evidently selected too long of a screw. This rig made it through and out the factory door, past the high quality quality control department. It made it to the dealer and through any inspection the dealer did when he accepted it, then it was displayed in the freakin inside showroom, with the tips of 3 screws blown out through the sidewall almost at eye level about a foot and a half to the right of the entry door. Real easy to miss lol.


If you've never read it, download and read THIS

Interestingly the author was run out of town (Elkhart/Goshen IN) on a rail by the RV Industry after he published it in 2016. He really hit some nerves. His online site, RV Daily Report, was the only publication that would report on the RV industry realistically, the manufacturers did not like anything about that and effectively shut it / him down.

Then we always have LEHTO and more LEHTO

[yellow_dog]

TXiceman wrote:

yellow dog wrote:
When I was referring to high end, I was referencing what the industry considers high end at $100K+ 5th wheels.

That is a big laugh. High End has shifted to considerable higher in price. To truly get high end you need to be in the $150,000 to $200,000 range. $100,000 is now a upper-medium cost 5th wheel.

And having been in sales I found you had to know as much about your competitor's equipment as you did your own in order to do your job.

Ken

Regardless of what you, I, or the industry considers "high end" these shouldn't be on display having issues that are being seen in my opinion. At the end of the day it is still a considerable amount of money being spent even on a $100,000 RV.

[dougrainer]

1. NHTSA recalls are FOUND after the units are built and in the field
2. Have you ever looked at the hundreds(maybe thousands) of NHTSA recalls for Automobiles?
3. It is against the law to sell new a RECALLED NHTSA unit. It must be fixed prior to sale. In some States, it is against the law to sell a used unit in a NHTSA recall.
4. I agree that in the past 3 years, quality has gone way down. This is because the RV industry has had the biggest surge in RV history for new sales and the attitude is to shove them out to get the sale now.
5. This in my opinion, will lead to massive RV customer dissatisfaction, because a LOT of these new sales were newbies that had no idea about the RV lifestyle. They are under 50 and have come to expect no defects at all(30 years of mercedes/Lexus/Asian quality).
6. There will be a massive amount of used sales by owners of less than 3 year old RV's. Already in the DFW market CW has mounted a HUGE used campaign to sell their used Trailers. I believe they are selling because the traditional Wholesalers are saturated with previous years of buying the used units and will not buy any more from the dealers. Doug

[bsbeedub]

Pbutler97 wrote:

dougrainer wrote:


When they leave the Manufacturer, items ARE correct and in good repair.

Sure they are ROFLMAO. Spoken like a true Industry insider. You should be in sales lol.

Every week or so the RVbusiness website posts up a whole article of these RVs leaving the manufacturer with items correct and in good repair.


That's just the defects that the NHTSA gives a krap about. For each one of those issues you're going to have a dozen others that fall under categories such as substandard carpentry, cheap or defective materials, peeling pleather, or just plain bad workmanship and assembly. On and on it goes and the buyer is left holding the bag. The warranties are structured to screw over the buyer and isolate the manufacturers exposure as much as possible.

The RV Industry is rotten from top to bottom.

Quality control does not exist in the RV Industry.

You yourself have posted on these boards how bad the Furrion appliances are yet they are in a good 80% or more of all RVs produced, along with all the other LCI garbage one gets.

That website really opened my eyes! I know that the industry has a terrible quality control issue (little to none) but I had no idea it was so widespread. My camping pals and I inevitably get to this subject every time we camp but we are barely scratching the surface.

[TXiceman]

yellow dog wrote:
When I was referring to high end, I was referencing what the industry considers high end at $100K+ 5th wheels.

That is a big laugh. High End has shifted to considerable higher in price. To truly get high end you need to be in the $150,000 to $200,000 range. $100,000 is now a upper-medium cost 5th wheel.

And having been in sales, I found you had to know as much about your competitor's equipment as you did your own in order to do your job.

Ken

[RetiredRealtorR]

yellow dog wrote:

RetiredRealtorRick wrote:
As long as American buyers continue to accept mediocrity as the norm, nothing will ever change.

Very True...It should start with sales reps learning their products.

I fully agree. When I was in the automobile business, I insisted my sales force know everything possible about the product they were selling, PLUS knowing as much as they could about their competitors. I wanted my Mercedes salespeople to know as much about BMW's as possible, etc. It allowed me to pass out some pretty handsome checks at the end of every month . . . including my own.

That being said, with the vast array of information available online, every buyer should walk into a dealership with a very good knowledge of the product he's looking at. Yes, the salesman 'should' be well-versed, but we all know that's not always the case. Due diligence is easier than ever nowadays, and it's our responsibility to be educated buyers.

[Pbutler97]

dougrainer wrote:


When they leave the Manufacturer, items ARE correct and in good repair.

Sure they are ROFLMAO. Spoken like a true Industry insider. You should be in sales lol.

Every week or so the RVbusiness website posts up a whole article of these RVs leaving the manufacturer with items correct and in good repair.


That's just the defects that the NHTSA gives a krap about. For each one of those issues you're going to have a dozen others that fall under categories such as substandard carpentry, cheap or defective materials, peeling pleather, or just plain bad workmanship and assembly. On and on it goes and the buyer is left holding the bag. The warranties are structured to screw over the buyer and isolate the manufacturers exposure as much as possible.

The RV Industry is rotten from top to bottom.

Quality control does not exist in the RV Industry.

You yourself have posted on these boards how bad the Furrion appliances are yet they are in a good 80% or more of all RVs produced, along with all the other LCI garbage one gets.

[dougrainer]

yellow dog wrote:
We spent last 2 weekends looking at new 5th wheels. Both brands we were looking at had numerous issues, from slides not working to torn vinyl flooring, seals on slides and trim hanging, to valances that had fallen. I would think the manufacturers would want things being gone over before either leaving the factory or before being shown at dealerships. Both were higher end RVs...I don't get it. I would estimate that out all of the RVs we looked at, more then half had issues.

When they leave the Manufacturer, items ARE correct and in good repair. BUT!!!!!! The FIRST thing ANYBODY should do when looking at a new RV and they find things out of whack, you should go to the VIN Sticker in the LF bottom side outside of the RV. On that Sticker will be the Build date(month/year). LOT ROT happens. So, if the units in question were less than a few months old, then that shows a BAD LAZY dealer. Even if older than a few months. People looking at RV's DESTROY them, when going thru the RV's. This comment is based on 43 years as a RV Tech and going to 2 shows a year. You would be amazed at how looky/lous damage and destroy brand new RV's at the RV shows. Same on the lot. BUT, if you have a BAD lazy sales dept, that does not get the items fixed by the Service Dept, that points back to the operation of the RV dealership. Which means you should not be surprised by the lack of support after you purchase. Doug