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Cummins12V98
on the road
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Bionic Man wrote:mkirsch wrote:RoyJ wrote:While I agree with the last sentence, I feel as we approach semi-trailer weights, more weight on the driver is needed for traction.
At 10% (4k lbs) pin weight, starting on a steep wet hill may be an issue. At 20% / 8k lbs, it'll be much better.
A single axle tractor towing a 40k trailer (Pepsi trailer, etc.) would have close to 20k on the drive axle.
When bragging about maximum tow capacities, manufacturers are NOT concerned in the least about "real world conditions."
All they care is if the truck can move it on a flat dry road.
Pretty sure they all follow SAE J2807 towing protocol for ratings….
EXACTLY and the testing is much more than on flat dry roads.
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4x4ord
Alberta
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Grit dog wrote:RoyJ wrote:IdaD wrote:Nah, you can go lighter than that and be fine. People on this site don't tow much other than campers so they don't know how cargo trailers are loaded. A gooseneck loaded at 10% on the pin, which is typical for a TT camper, will be a lot more stable than the aforementioned TT given the hitch location over the axle.
While I agree with the last sentence, I feel as we approach semi-trailer weights, more weight on the driver is needed for traction.
At 10% (4k lbs) pin weight, starting on a steep wet hill may be an issue. At 20% / 8k lbs, it'll be much better.
A single axle tractor towing a 40k trailer (Pepsi trailer, etc.) would have close to 20k on the drive axle.
Agree, but Pepsi trucks don't have 4wd. You're right though, the towing wars are really gettin good!
Good news is, any of these new doolies (talking 1 tons here) can handle a 7-8klb pin weight without much issue.
I think if I was going to be tugging around even 20-25k on a regular basis I'd want a doolie, but, I've had 11k on the pin of my little SRW and nothing broke.
2022 F350 SRW Platinum short box 4x4.
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Grit dog
Black Diamond, WA
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^My point exactly.
A light duty truck with as much power and towing capacity of an average OTR truck from 20 years ago is still the wrong vehicle to use primarily for that purpose (towing 40klbs).
But with that kind of power and as stout as new pickemup trucks are, it will handle the occasional “big rig” duty.
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RoyJ
Vancouver, BC
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4x4ord wrote:I think if I was going to be tugging around even 20-25k on a regular basis I'd want a doolie, but, I've had 11k on the pin of my little SRW and nothing broke.
11k trailer weight, not pin weight, correct?
If that's pin weight, I'd be concerned about the tires!
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RoyJ
Vancouver, BC
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Grit dog wrote:^My point exactly.
A light duty truck with as much power and towing capacity of an average OTR truck from 20 years ago is still the wrong vehicle to use primarily for that purpose (towing 40klbs).
But with that kind of power and as stout as new pickemup trucks are, it will handle the occasional “big rig” duty.
My concern is the GVW to trailer axle weight, i.e. tail wagging the dog syndrome.
Assuming 6500 truck, 8000 pin weight, 32000 trailer axle weight. That's 14,500 truck GVW controlling 32,000 trailer axle weight.
A standard 80k semi has 12k steer, 34k drive, 34k trailer. That's 46,000 of truck GVW controlling 34,000 trailer. That's 3x better ratio than the pickup
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blt2ski
Kirkland, Wa
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Roy,
To your point of tail wagging the dog. Back in the early 80's, a ratio I remember, grawr x 2 = max trailer wieght for a give chassis. That's worked pretty well for me, with an occasional x2-2.5.....
Then as they did then, spec the HP/torque, transmission, tire diam, then gear ratio based on final drive ratio of transmission,
For the driving you do!
Marty
92 Navistar dump truck, 7.3L 7 sp, 4.33 gears with a Detroit no spin
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4x4ord
Alberta
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RoyJ wrote:4x4ord wrote:I think if I was going to be tugging around even 20-25k on a regular basis I'd want a doolie, but, I've had 11k on the pin of my little SRW and nothing broke.
11k trailer weight, not pin weight, correct?
If that's pin weight, I'd be concerned about the tires!
11k pin weight. The tires actually didn't look too bad .... it rode terrible and had something gone wrong I would have blamed the idiot behind the wheel. So, just to be clear, I'm not suggesting anyone put 11k lbs on the pin of their SRW pick up.
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4x4ord
Alberta
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RoyJ wrote:Grit dog wrote:^My point exactly.
A light duty truck with as much power and towing capacity of an average OTR truck from 20 years ago is still the wrong vehicle to use primarily for that purpose (towing 40klbs).
But with that kind of power and as stout as new pickemup trucks are, it will handle the occasional “big rig” duty.
My concern is the GVW to trailer axle weight, i.e. tail wagging the dog syndrome.
Assuming 6500 truck, 8000 pin weight, 32000 trailer axle weight. That's 14,500 truck GVW controlling 32,000 trailer axle weight.
A standard 80k semi has 12k steer, 34k drive, 34k trailer. That's 46,000 of truck GVW controlling 34,000 trailer. That's 3x better ratio than the pickup
Make's quite a difference alright. I was pulled over once in a class 8 highway tractor towing an empty 45 foot flat bed trailer. The officer checked my truck and trailer out and then proceeded to put blocks around my trailer tires.... I presumed he was wanting to check my trailer brakes. He came back up to the window and started barking out orders, "I want you to pull this button and push that one, then, when I say so, I want you to" ... I interrupted, telling him "I can save you the effort .... they're not hooked up anyway". He was not impressed, "Not hooked up. How come there not hooked up?" "Well," I said, "there not hooked up cuz they don't work." My fine was significant but the fact of the matter is when you've got 23k lbs on the truck, the brakes on that empty trailer's axles are not going to make a whole lot of difference. Now if things had been weighted the other way where an 8k truck is pulling a 23k lb trailer...
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StephenMichael
3836 Ashcraft Court San Diego, CA 92101
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Nice towing just easier. I also lost my card how can I find it any suggestions about it? I don't know how to recover it because it is my first time. I was about to search it online but my sister told me to search Top Cv Review That Reflects Topcv UK | Top CV Writers online for her first. So, I started searching for it online and I am glad I found your post as well.
* This post was
edited 12/08/22 03:42am by StephenMichael *
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