jimh406
Western MT
Senior Member
Joined: 06/11/2006
View Profile
 Offline
|
FishOnOne wrote:Here's some more intel on this Ram 3500 frame failure.
Link
It seems to be a lot of basic information. What you did you feel was intel?
'10 Ford F-450, 6.4, 4.30, 4x4, 14,500 GVWR, '06 Host Rainer 950 DS, Torklift Talon tiedowns, Glow Steps, and Fastguns. Bilstein 4600s, Firestone Bags, Toyo M655 Gs, Curt front hitch, Energy Suspension bump stops.
NRA Life Member, CCA Life Member
|
Bedlam
PNW
Moderator
Joined: 06/13/2012
View Profile
|
TFL is not versed on truck campers, so they did not touch on possible additional option weight of the camper nor on the attachment to the truck. I am glad they pointed out that truck capacities vary greatly within a model and advertising only shows best case scenarios in limited configurations. There is more planning than just looking at camper weight if you plan to hang weight off the rear for additional cargo or trailer hitch...
* This post was
edited 01/02/23 04:49pm by Bedlam *
Chevy Sonic 1.8-Honda Passport C70B-Host Mammoth 11.5-Interstate Car Carrier 20-Joyner SandViper 250-Kawasaki Concours ZG1000-Paros 8' flatbed-Pelican Decker DLX 8.75-Ram 5500 HD
|
valhalla360
No paticular place.
Senior Member
Joined: 08/19/2009
View Profile
Good Sam RV Club Member
|
Bedlam wrote:It is not a motorcycle rack or motorcycle off the rear. The owner had two e-bikes which weigh 60-80 lbs each. Verify your information before posting or I will delete posts or lock this thread. This failure was on a 2020 Ram 3500 DRW crew cab long bed.
OK, so 2 x 80lb bikes plus 60-80lb for the rack...or around 250lb several feet back from the rear axle bouncing down the road acting as a big lever while the 6500lb (loaded) camper rocks back and forth. If they get into sync, it could easily tear the frame apart. Plus fatigue damage from the 25k miles, it might have done OK initially but eventually, that will weaken the metal.
The simple fact it bent upwards in the middle suggests it was too much weight at the back as the front of the truck doesn't appear to have any modifications adding weight to the front. If it had bent down, that would have suggested too much weight between the axles.
I'm still waiting on pictures of the frame itself. If the frame was modified and then grossly overloaded on a rough road...nothing surprising that it eventually gave out.
Tammy & Mike
Ford F250 V10
2021 Gray Wolf
Gemini Catamaran 34'
Full Time spliting time between boat and RV
|
JimK-NY
NY
Senior Member
Joined: 05/12/2010
View Profile
Good Sam RV Club Member
Offline
|
It seems whenever there is a discussion of camper weights on this forum, there are lots of derogatory comments about the "weight police". This might be an extreme example but it shows the importance of matching the actual camper weight. As pointed out in the video it is impossible to know the exact CCC for this truck. Based on the tables from Ram, it seems that the CCC was likely about 6000#. The weight of the camper can only be estimated but certainly was much higher than the CCC. The base camper is 4900#. With water and propane that jumps to 5500#. The base camper weight does not include accessories which are highly likely such as an A/C unit, extra battery, awnings, generator, and the solar panels which we can see. Best guess is the basic camper weight was in the 6000# range. Unfortunately that does not include personal items which would include that heavy rack and one or two electric bikes, all the food and drink, kitchen plates, pans, etc, bedding, towels, tools, air compressor, BBQ grill, other hobby and personal items and the weight of the passengers. Based on my experience those items can easily add up to 1500# or more plus the weight of the rack and bikes. I think it is likely that the CCC was exceeded by a couple thousand pounds. In addition there was clearly an issue with the center of gravity and way too much weight behind the rear wheels.
|
valhalla360
No paticular place.
Senior Member
Joined: 08/19/2009
View Profile
Good Sam RV Club Member
|
Does RAM provide a separate weight rating for truck campers?
I know Ford does. On my 2008 F250, the payload capacity is 2700lb on the door jam but per the Ford towing guideline document, I'm limited to just over 2200lb with a truck camper.
|
|
|
Groover
Pulaski, TN
Senior Member
Joined: 10/17/2007
View Profile
Offline
|
Regardless of the well discussed issues here the frame failure was most likely due to fatigue. Fatigue is caused in steel by REPEATED stressing over 50% of bend strength and release. Flexing over bumps can cause a lot of stress and release situations.
40 years ago many of the truck campers I saw had shock absorbers on the front of the cabover going down to the front fenders. The point of these was to absorb the frame damaging stresses that lead to fatigue and also control a bouncy ride. I ran a rig for 20 years that was probably more overloaded than the one here. It was 19'6" overall with the cabover hanging out so far over the Supercab that it hit the radio antenna. It had a lot of frame flex that I felt had to be dealt with. I didn't like the shocks but I found some fairly still but flexible foam and built a cushion to go between the cab and the cabover just behind the windshield and full width. That extra leverage on the frame did a lot to reduce the flexing and improve the ride. Also, my truck never broke in half. Just a thought for people with long and heavy campers.
If the frame was cut or welded to without smoothing the transition areas of focused stress that can lead to increased fatigue and early failures. For example, if a bracket is welded to the frame in a way that leaves a sudden step it will likely fail at the edge of that step weld bead. The step needs to be extended and ground to a smooth transition. Also, many frames are heat treated and can be locally annealed by welding and that can also lead to stress failures.
Modern frames are designed to be light and strong which means that stresses are spread evenly throughout the metal. If you mess with the way those stresses are spread disaster can result.
* This post was
edited 01/03/23 08:21am by Groover *
|
Bedlam
PNW
Moderator
Joined: 06/13/2012
View Profile
|
Some of the camper weight ratings I have seen assume a 150 lb person in every seat. If you have six seating, that reduces your camper carrying rating by 900 lbs.
|
srschang
Western NY
Senior Member
Joined: 08/23/2005
View Profile
Good Sam RV Club Member
Offline
|
valhalla360 wrote:Does RAM provide a separate weight rating for truck campers?
I know Ford does. On my 2008 F250, the payload capacity is 2700lb on the door jam but per the Ford towing guideline document, I'm limited to just over 2200lb with a truck camper.
Yes, Ram does include a camper sheet. I have a truck identical to the broken truck, except mine is a 2022.
From the door sticker "The combined weight of occupants and cargo should never exceed 5569#"
From the truck camper document "Cargo weight rating (pounds) 4738"
My camper weight is 4740# when 100% loaded with water, propane, full fridge, bottled water, beer. I weighed the truck at a CAT scale fully loaded as we left on trip, and then after the trip when the camper was off the truck. So although I'm 2 pounds over the truck camper document, it's very rare that the camper is 100% full of "Stuff".
2022 Ram 3500 Dually Crewcab Longbed Cummins, 2019 Northstar 12 STC
|
Grit dog
Black Diamond, WA
Senior Member
Joined: 05/06/2013
View Profile
Offline
|
valhalla360 wrote:Does RAM provide a separate weight rating for truck campers?
I know Ford does. On my 2008 F250, the payload capacity is 2700lb on the door jam but per the Ford towing guideline document, I'm limited to just over 2200lb with a truck camper.
I believe they do. Although I could be confusing with Ford. But no matter traditionally the TC ratings are downgraded from the over all Ccc based on the gvw. Couple reasons I surmise.
1. Because campers generally only load the rear axle without any significant weight on the front, sometimes negative which increases the bending moment in the direction of that failure.
2. There is probably an algorithm designed for the lawyers taking into account a typical higher load center and the cantilever weight past the rear axle.
Also the added weight to the front of that truck over stock was plainly evident. It has a welded steel bumper with welded brush guard at a minimum. Can’t see if it has a winch too.
Avg weight of those bumpers is around 250lbs. Avg weight of the foldable tin can OE bumper, maybe 30 lbs. I just r and r the bumpers on my 4th gen. Rear weighs about as much as 2 sacks of groceries. Front is worth maybe 3 bags. If one has bread and chips in it.
I’m not the weight cops either. And I would consider hauling a camper that size on a new dually, likely without issue. But I just wouldn’t be so ignorant as to assume and publicly state and publish that the truck wasn’t overloaded! Lol.
And just like my overloaded trip to Alaska, if the roads in Meh hee co were similar, I’d be doin my flat best to not tear the truck up on them.
Bottom line not the trucks fault. Not the roads fault. This one lands firmly in the lap of an owner who just learned an expensive lesson.
But hey, I participate in activities where if you’re not breaking stuff you ain’t trying, as well.
I’ve just gotten smarter about breaking less stuff less often as I’ve become a bit wiser. I predict this guy will too.
I snapped the rear skid in half on my snobike last year. About 15 miles from the truck with a big climb to get out. I should have known better but I pushed an inferior design that I was aware of because “it hadn’t broken yet”. Bit different scenario as I wasn’t overloading anything. But totally the same as I knew I was pushing my luck. I should have been wiser.
But the one thing I didn’t do was get on the internet and complain about it. I got on the internet and ordered new parts!
2016 Ram 2500, MotorOps.ca EFIlive tuned, 5” turbo back, 6" lift on 37s
2017 Heartland Torque T29 - Sold.
Couple of Arctic Fox TCs - Sold
|
jimh406
Western MT
Senior Member
Joined: 06/11/2006
View Profile
Offline
|
Groover wrote:40 years ago many of the truck campers I saw had shock absorbers on the front of the cabover going down to the front fenders. The point of these was to absorb the frame damaging stresses that lead to fatigue and also control a bouncy ride.
If you read what Lance says about their shocks, they were to improve the ride. They made no claim that they helped with frame stress.
In any case, anything you can do to soften bumps/ride is probably good. When I bought my truck used, one particular bump on I-90 was pretty brutal. I installed Bilstein shocks and that bump wasn't very noticeable after that. I don't know how the stock shocks performed when new because I didn't own it then.
It's possible that the suspension added to the stresses on the frame. You can easily watch how much your TC moves when you hit bumps. Big movements compared to the same road without a TC are probably not a great thing.
While we are on suspension, I feel the right amount of air in airbags can also smooth out the ride, but nothing will smooth a very bumpy road other than slowing down.
|
|
|
|
