propchef
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agesilaus wrote:In Europe charger costs exceeded gasoline costs.
Thanks. Do you by chance have a source for this? Gas and electric prices vary wildly from country to country in Europe, and a lot depends on whether you charge at home (cheap) or use a fast charging system (most expensive), when you charge or if you have a membership of a particular system, etc. There's a very wide variance.
The most recent study along these lines is from Sept of 2022 and uses numbers from 2019. That study shows it's less expensive to charge an EV than buy gas regardless of country and system.
This is a good summary.
https://www.realclearscience.com/articles/2022/09/22/how_expensive_is_it_to_charge_an_ev_in_europe_and_is_it_really_cheaper_than_gas_854618.html
Here's an extensive, scientific study done by Nature that dives deep into the numbers.
Quote:the costs of charging electric vehicles in Europe are largely unknown. Here we develop a systematic classification of charging options, gather extensive market data on equipment cost, and employ a levelized cost approach to model charging costs in 30 European countries (European Union 27, Great Britain, Norway, Switzerland) and for 13 different charging options for private passenger transport. The findings demonstrate a large variance of charging costs across countries and charging options, suggesting different policy options to reduce charging costs. A specific analysis on the impacts and relevance of publicly accessible charging station utilization is performed. The results reveal charging costs at these stations to be competitive with fuel costs at typical utilization rates exhibited already today.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-022-32835-7
Here's a study done only in England from late 2022 that shows charging an EV is "nearly as expensive" as fuelling up. It still isn't more.
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/09/27/ev-drivers-in-britain-see-jump-in-public-charging-cost-.html
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Reisender
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It’s an interesting article and I’m sure it’s accurate. But as the article points out this is if the driver was to use on DC fast charging facilities. But just like in North America the vast amount of charging is done at home in your driveway where it is much cheaper. For us it is 6 times cheaper to drive electric than gas when charging at home. When we started to drive EV seven years ago it was 4 times cheaper. So it continues to get cheaper driving an EV. And of course much more convenient, especially in winter.
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agesilaus
North Florida
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Reisender wrote:It’s an interesting article and I’m sure it’s accurate. But as the article points out this is if the driver was to use on DC fast charging facilities. But just like in North America the vast amount of charging is done at home in your driveway where it is much cheaper. For us it is 6 times cheaper to drive electric than gas when charging at home. When we started to drive EV seven years ago it was 4 times cheaper. So it continues to get cheaper driving an EV. And of course much more convenient, especially in winter.
Hmm wonder why, did the price of fuel go up?
Quote:BERLIN—Rocketing electricity prices are increasing the cost of driving electric vehicles in Europe, in some cases making them more expensive to run than gas-powered models—a change that could threaten the continent’s electric transition.
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propchef
NORCAL
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agesilaus wrote:Reisender wrote:It’s an interesting article and I’m sure it’s accurate. But as the article points out this is if the driver was to use on DC fast charging facilities. But just like in North America the vast amount of charging is done at home in your driveway where it is much cheaper. For us it is 6 times cheaper to drive electric than gas when charging at home. When we started to drive EV seven years ago it was 4 times cheaper. So it continues to get cheaper driving an EV. And of course much more convenient, especially in winter.
Hmm wonder why, did the price of fuel go up?
Quote:BERLIN—Rocketing electricity prices are increasing the cost of driving electric vehicles in Europe, in some cases making them more expensive to run than gas-powered models—a change that could threaten the continent’s electric transition.
Germany, yes. Austria and Switzerland as well have higher gas prices than the rest of Europe. All of that is mentioned in the studies I posted as well as the recent rise in prices. EVs are still cheaper to run.
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spoon059
Just north of D.C.
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Reisender wrote:Maybe. But a lot of people tow light as well. Both the lightnings and Rivians have decent towing ranges when towing smaller single axle trailers. We saw one towing a T@B this fall on the Sunshine Coast. Never had a chance to talk to him. Think it was an American plate. He was coming off the ferry and we were getting ready to go on. Sharp looking little truck though. Kind of a darker green colour.
Yup, and some people tow heavy. So it was a legit question. Not sure why people have their knickers in a twist over it...
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Reisender
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spoon059 wrote:Reisender wrote:Maybe. But a lot of people tow light as well. Both the lightnings and Rivians have decent towing ranges when towing smaller single axle trailers. We saw one towing a T@B this fall on the Sunshine Coast. Never had a chance to talk to him. Think it was an American plate. He was coming off the ferry and we were getting ready to go on. Sharp looking little truck though. Kind of a darker green colour.
Yup, and some people tow heavy. So it was a legit question. Not sure why people have their knickers in a twist over it...
Yah I get that. But quite often you see phrases like “it’s no good for towing”. Which is true…for some people. But EV’s can be great tow vehicles for some. Never a good idea to paint with a big brush.
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agesilaus
North Florida
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spoon059 wrote:Reisender wrote:Maybe. But a lot of people tow light as well. Both the lightnings and Rivians have decent towing ranges when towing smaller single axle trailers. We saw one towing a T@B this fall on the Sunshine Coast. Never had a chance to talk to him. Think it was an American plate. He was coming off the ferry and we were getting ready to go on. Sharp looking little truck though. Kind of a darker green colour.
Yup, and some people tow heavy. So it was a legit question. Not sure why people have their knickers in a twist over it...
And this is an RV forum and most folks here are towing Fivers and Travel Trailers. Or maybe planning to do so. Why else would we be looking at Tow Trucks forum? Not of great interest to Class A, B and C Rvers. Not too many camping using a 8 foot Tractor Supply flatbed.
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time2roll
Southern California
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agesilaus wrote: Not of great interest to Class A, B and C Rvers. I am still waiting to get a report on using a Rivian as a toad. If it works I might just trade....
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Reisender
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agesilaus wrote:spoon059 wrote:Reisender wrote:Maybe. But a lot of people tow light as well. Both the lightnings and Rivians have decent towing ranges when towing smaller single axle trailers. We saw one towing a T@B this fall on the Sunshine Coast. Never had a chance to talk to him. Think it was an American plate. He was coming off the ferry and we were getting ready to go on. Sharp looking little truck though. Kind of a darker green colour.
Yup, and some people tow heavy. So it was a legit question. Not sure why people have their knickers in a twist over it...
And this is an RV forum and most folks here are towing Fivers and Travel Trailers. Or maybe planning to do so. Why else would we be looking at Tow Trucks forum? Not of great interest to Class A, B and C Rvers. Not too many camping using a 8 foot Tractor Supply flatbed.
Depends where you are I guess. One of things that we noticed this summer on our cross country tour was most of the rigs on the road were smaller trailers being towed by SUV’s and small trucks. The campgrounds were full of them. Many of the bigger units had lots of grass growing up around them. The result of expensive fuel I suppose. But many of the campgrounds we were in were provincial parks that couldn’t handle bigger rigs anyway. Heck, some of the sites we got were tight for our 18 footer. Especially in northern Ontario provincial parks going over the Great Lakes. Nice though. There were also a lot of small C’s and B’s. I could have disconnected but we wanted the site open.
![[image]](https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52204569104_44f3d3a09a_c.jpg)
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ronharmless
The far side
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Hum!! That’s the opposite of what I noticed last summer. I was camping and thought somehow I got misplaced into the big fiver’s section. It felt like I was camping in a teeny tiny TT compared to the rest of the sites (and mines 28 ft). One was even being pulled by a class 8 tractor. Now makes me wonder what the real statistics are about the size of the campers being sold. This seat of the pants blathering is probably very subjective and possibly not very objective. Real data backed up with links would be very useful.
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