ktmrfs
Portland, Oregon
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valhalla360 wrote:If they could boost MPG by 25%, the auto companies would bid billions for the patent as they could dominate the trucking industry (and other heavy commercial engines) for decades until the patent ran out.
As mentioned, patents aren't secret. They are publicly available. How else would you know if someone already patented an idea? Plus, you can use patented ideas but simply have to pay for them. So if true, it would be worth a court case to open the design to public use.
The patent holder can choose to not license the patent to others.
Exactly. There are a FEW patents that were/are considered top secret by the US gov't and issued but not published. Several such classified patents were issued to Hedi Lamar the actress. Even after they were unclassified they were hard to find since they were issued under her real name, not stage name, made it harder to search by patent holders name.
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valhalla360
No paticular place.
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ktmrfs wrote:valhalla360 wrote:If they could boost MPG by 25%, the auto companies would bid billions for the patent as they could dominate the trucking industry (and other heavy commercial engines) for decades until the patent ran out.
As mentioned, patents aren't secret. They are publicly available. How else would you know if someone already patented an idea? Plus, you can use patented ideas but simply have to pay for them. So if true, it would be worth a court case to open the design to public use.
The patent holder can choose to not license the patent to others.
Exactly. There are a FEW patents that were/are considered top secret by the US gov't and issued but not published. Several such classified patents were issued to Hedi Lamar the actress. Even after they were unclassified they were hard to find since they were issued under her real name, not stage name, made it harder to search by patent holders name.
Yes, top secret stuff is a special case but ICE engine efficiency isn't a likely target for that.
As I said, that big of an improvement would be worth the court case. So if they don't license it, you just build it anyway and let them sue you. The court will assign a value for the patent...you don't get to say something silly like $10mil per engine, it has to be justified by actual value. Very quickly it would be sorted out (they might set up a dummy company to do it, so it would limit risk).
Alternatively, some other country not subject to US patent law would simply start using it in the best interest of their country.
The patent system isn't designed to restrict the use of new technology, only to make sure those who develop it are fairly compensated.
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RetiredRealtorRick
St. Augustine Beach, FL
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ktmrfs wrote:RetiredRealtorRick wrote:fj12ryder wrote:RetiredRealtorRick wrote:fj12ryder wrote:opnspaces wrote:25% is a huge boost in economy. I don't know if diesel's are figured into the manufacturers Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) or not. But if they can come out with a piston top that gives 25% more economy for a gasoline engine the manufacturer's jump all over that. You mean like they did with the 200 mpg carburetor? ![[emoticon]](https://forums.goodsamclub.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/smile.gif "smile")
Yup, much the same --- some big oil company will buy the technology and patents and set it on a shelf. Done. Uh, that was a joke.
Mine wasn't. Google it.
"Don't believe everything you find on the Internet"
Thomas Jefferson
Oh yeah, I forgot about Thomas Jefferson's famous statement. I'll have to remember that next time I Google something. Thanks for the reminder ![[emoticon]](https://forums.goodsamclub.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/awink.gif "awink")
. . . never confuse education with intelligence, nor motion with progress
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mkirsch
Rochester, NY
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ktmrfs wrote:All US and foreign patents that are issues are viewable on the patent and trademark website by anyone, post that a oil company supposedly bought and set on a shelf patent! And patents expire, so anyone can use it once expired. anyone done that?????
Hang on, just one last fold on my new tinfoil hat... There, fits perfectly!
Okay, now that I'm in full tinfoil hat mode, don't you realize that "they" can pay to have patents stricken from the record or declared top secret?
Putting 10-ply tires on half ton trucks since aught-four.
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fj12ryder
Platte City, MO
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A lot of discussion for something discussed on a Youtube video.
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StirCrazy
Kamloops, BC, Canada
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mkirsch wrote:Someone's going to say it, so it might as well be me:
Getting rid of the poorly-executed emissions equipment on these engines would accomplish the same thing without an expensive fancy piston.
actualy I don't think anyone was going to say it because it doesnt make any sence.
emissions may be a garbage set up but they do lower emiaaions, if you take them off emissions will go up so taking them off will not do anything aside from a little bit better milage as the expence of more emissions.
there has been a Canadian company testing these pistons in the engines they remanufacture for almost two years and here are there results
"During testing, DFC Diesel observed fuel consumption reductions of 25% or more with factory tuning, an average of 5% increases in torque and horsepower, NOx reductions as high as 80%, and the ability to extend oil change intervals by 50% due to decreased soot and fuel dilution. Observed benefits also include reduced regeneration cycles, DEF consumption, and visible exhaust/opacity, along with noticeably smoother and quieter operation."
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Desert Captain
Payson
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Grit dog wrote:Desert Captain wrote:With diesel being about 25 percent higher in cost than regular gas where is the net savings?
Just saying/asking... ![[emoticon]](https://forums.goodsamclub.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/scratchead.gif "scratchead")
You’re not really a pot stirrer so why now?
Not trying to stir any pots but some folks here are playing fast and loose with the math...
"If" diesels get 10 to 15 percent better mileage and diesel fuel costs 25+ percent more than gas then once you add in the cost of these wonder pistons {I doubt they are free to buy much less install} there doesn't appear to me much of net savings {assuming they actually work as represented here}.
I like the power and reliability of a diesel, had one in my last boat {a 40' trawler} for 5 years but now, like many I simply have no use for that motor.
There are three kinds of people on this planet... those that can do math and those that can't.
![[emoticon]](https://forums.goodsamclub.com/sharedcontent/cfb/images/biggrin.gif "biggrin")
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ppine
Northern Nevada
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Desert Captain wrote:With diesel being about 25 percent higher in cost than regular gas where is the net savings?
Just saying/asking...
Depends on location. On the West Coast diesel is often cheaper than gas. Diesel engines last much longer, they get better mileage, they pull better, and they are worth a lot more when they age.
There are gross savings, net savings and fuel savings.
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JRscooby
Indepmo
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Desert Captain wrote:
Not trying to stir any pots but some folks here are playing fast and loose with the math...
"If" diesels get 10 to 15 percent better mileage and diesel fuel costs 25+ percent more than gas then once you add in the cost of these wonder pistons {I doubt they are free to buy much less install} there doesn't appear to me much of net savings {assuming they actually work as represented here}.
I like the power and reliability of a diesel, had one in my last boat {a 40' trawler} for 5 years but now, like many I simply have no use for that motor.
There are three kinds of people on this planet... those that can do math and those that can't.
And many people that can point out errors in arithmetic, but can't grasp the logic.
If a engine is getting 16 MPG on diesel, is modified, now gets 20 MPG on diesel the price of gasoline does not amount to a pinch of snot.
I have been saying for decade and half the diesel engine industry should be working to clean the combustion instead of cleaning the exhaust.
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Cummins12V98
on the road
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FishOnOne wrote:Diesel's are due for a major break thru in technology that reduces the need or better yet eliminates the band-aid emissions equipment.
You mean like the Lady at Cummins that spoke of them working on such a system?
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