wapiticountry
Mountain West
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A greater short term question is where to charge them. A significant percentage of drivers do not have access to garage charging. People live in apartments with parking lots that have no power. Other people have multiple vehicles and park on the street. The high speed charging stations are far less numerous than gas stations. And numerous people live in areas where the commutes require long ranges without the ability to recharge. That part of the EV puzzle is absolutely as questionable as the capacity of the power grid.
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pianotuna
Regina, SK, Canada
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The Musk Semi claims 2 kwh per mile.
Based on what goes up must come down, consumption on the way up would be higher, but coming down the other side of the mountain, generation would be used instead of brakes. Of course there would be losses but perhaps 10 to 12%?
It is not at all the same as hooking a tail drager to a Truck for the Semi is purpose built for heavy loads.
Now, where do I go to get my self driving EV Class C, so I can sleep between piano tuning appointments?? lol
Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, 556 amp-hours of Telcom jars, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.
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pianotuna
Regina, SK, Canada
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wapiticountry wrote:A greater short term question is where to charge them. A significant percentage of drivers do not have access to garage charging. People live in apartments with parking lots that have no power. Other people have multiple vehicles and park on the street. The high speed charging stations are far less numerous than gas stations. And numerous people live in areas where the commutes require long ranges without the ability to recharge. That part of the EV puzzle is absolutely as questionable as the capacity of the power grid.
On the first road trip from San Francisco to New York, gasoline was purchased at the local drug stores. Yet, a little over 100 years later we hardly dream of not finding fuel close by.
This IS changing in rural areas, as small towns start flickering out of existence. I've seen a couple of towns where there is no longer even a gas station.
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Reisender
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wapiticountry wrote:A greater short term question is where to charge them. A significant percentage of drivers do not have access to garage charging. People live in apartments with parking lots that have no power. Other people have multiple vehicles and park on the street. The high speed charging stations are far less numerous than gas stations. And numerous people live in areas where the commutes require long ranges without the ability to recharge. That part of the EV puzzle is absolutely as questionable as the capacity of the power grid.
It’s a valid question and as you pointed out more of a short term than long term problem. The local building code has already changed here in that new apartment buildings must supply X amount of L2 chargers per X amount of apartments. Older buildings are dealing with in various ways and the general feeling is providing charging is attracting tenants so I’m sure it will get sorted out in the long run. The growing pains will be mostly over the next 10 years.
I noticed that the new buildings close to us have L2 chargers with RFID card readers so I suspect those who use them probably get an RFID card from the management and probably pay accordingly. I noticed that KOA is using similar charge stations with the same machines. One can even reserve them. Kinda cool. I’ll put a pic up in a minute.
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ronharmless
The far side
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time2roll wrote:MEXICOWANDERER wrote:Depends. California mandates every motor vehicle to become EV and all new homes to not have any other source of energy than electrical. They are looking at a grid equal to the totals output capacity of several Grand Coulee Dams generation.
Interties, transmission, distribution capacity would have to increase 4-700%. Are you ready to see four to seven times more electrical towers? Nuclear plants? What's the daily KW needs of a 70,000 pound cargo truck in mountainous terrain? The link provides some background and ultimately say we may need 10% more power over 25+ years.
Where are your numbers to get to 400% to 700%? Just to clear up a misconception. The article does not say “ 10% more power over 25+ years” it says we need 10% more power just for EV charging, it doesn’t guess at how much more in total we may need. Mex’s post was regarding Total output capacity” apples and oranges.
By the way, the DOE puts that number at 38% for EV’s alone.
Clicky
* This post was
edited 02/13/23 04:50pm by ronharmless *
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Reisender
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These are similar (if not the same) to what the some of the apartment buildings are using. These ones are in the KOA we are visiting in the US (St Marys in Glacier park). I'm not sure how it will work but as per their advertisement they can even be reserved. We have both the phone APP and the RFID card for them but have only used it once (a few years ago) so not sure. Anyway. This is how some apartment buildings will solve the charge issues.
Hope that helps. Safe travels all.
![[image]](https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52646932561_c318ed5b1d_c.jpg)
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Grit dog
Black Diamond, WA
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pinesman wrote:There are still a lot of houses in my area that only have 60 amp electrical service with old glass fuses but the folks who live in them would never be able to afford an electric car anyway.
Yeah but the some folks don’t consider that. That would be something considered by a realist! And you make an excellent point that very few of the EV proponents driving around in their bougie $60-120k luxury EVs, “saving the planet” while they toss the paper cup from their $7 Starbucks in the trash!
2016 Ram 2500, MotorOps.ca EFIlive tuned, 5” turbo back, 6" lift on 37s
2017 Heartland Torque T29 - Sold.
Couple of Arctic Fox TCs - Sold
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KD4UPL
Swoope, VA
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Forget the grid, the electrical infrastructure in most homes and neighborhoods can't handle total conversion to EVs. Many homes still have 60 amp services. Most homes in the US have 100 amp services. A level 2 charger can draw from 30 to about 60 amps depending on the model and the charge level of the car it's charging. This leaves very little service capacity for the other loads in the house. With gas and oil heat being forced out in favor of heat pumps it makes the situation even worse. Most homes in this country will need a new service to handle EVs alone, not to mention full electrification.
A 25 kVA transformer is a common size to supply 1 or more homes. These are roughly rated for 100 amps. If this is what's feeding your home, even if you have a 200 amp service, adding an EV could easily overload the transformer. In households that would have 2 or more drivers and thus multiple cars charging the power company will likely need to upgrade the transformers. In some older neighborhoods it's not uncommon for one 25 kVA transformer to feed several homes; I've seen up to 6 personally.
My vacation house is fed with a 15 kVA transformer. I was looking at putting in a tankless water heater instead of our tank type. A tank type WH uses 4.5 kVA. The size tankless heater I would need was going to be 20 kVA. Obviously I can't run that on a 15 kVA transformer. The power company wanted $5,000 to upgraded it. I"m sticking with my tank type. I had thought about adding an electric car charger at the cabin to make it more appealing to renters. But, after figuring the water heater, well pump, air conditioning, and other loads there wasn't enough capacity for a charger.
This doesn't even address the power company feeders in neighborhoods. If everybody on a cul-de-sac fed by the same feeder gets their electric cars charging at once the feeder will be overwhelmed.
Most people will be charging their cars at home at night. Solar panels don't work at night. I should know, I install them for a living. That means that most of the energy to charge these cars will be coming from coal, natural gas, and nuclear.
Then there's construction, mining, logging, and farm equipment that isn't parked anywhere near the grid. If that is electrified where are they supposed to charge?
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Grit dog
Black Diamond, WA
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Reisender wrote:wapiticountry wrote:A greater short term question is where to charge them. A significant percentage of drivers do not have access to garage charging. People live in apartments with parking lots that have no power. Other people have multiple vehicles and park on the street. The high speed charging stations are far less numerous than gas stations. And numerous people live in areas where the commutes require long ranges without the ability to recharge. That part of the EV puzzle is absolutely as questionable as the capacity of the power grid.
It’s a valid question and as you pointed out more of a short term than long term problem. The local building code has already changed here in that new apartment buildings must supply X amount of L2 chargers per X amount of apartments. Older buildings are dealing with in various ways and the general feeling is providing charging is attracting tenants so I’m sure it will get sorted out in the long run. The growing pains will be mostly over the next 10 years.
I noticed that the new buildings close to us have L2 chargers with RFID card readers so I suspect those who use them probably get an RFID card from the management and probably pay accordingly. I noticed that KOA is using similar charge stations with the same machines. One can even reserve them. Kinda cool. I’ll put a pic up in a minute.
And THIS is exactly what I was talking aboot in the previous post.
Most of what you’re talking aboot places to live cannot be afforded on just a median income. And certainly not if there’s an expensive car ….or 2 in the driveway. IE EVs.
No doubt EVs are here to stay but there is SO much that needs to happen that is realistic and achievable in the near future and plenty that is not, to make that switch.
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BB_TX
McKinney, Texas
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Charging stations are popping up regularly in all kinds of public areas. And will continue to until charging stations are more common than service stations in a few years. And residences, whether individual house or large apartments, will follow suit. And rapid charging will become more the norm than the exception.
As far as more power generation and delivery? That too will happen as the demand increases. What form that takes is evolving. Transmission line voltage can be increased in some feeder lines to send more power at the same current amperage meaning no change in wire size. There is money to be made there. And where there is money to be made, someone is going to find the way. Good old capitalism. It works.
Continue to deny if you want, but it is just wishful thinking on your part.
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