free radical
Canada
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way2roll wrote:blt2ski wrote:for those of you that work or play in places that get somilar rules thrown at them..... how many have truly caused issues? how many got delayed due to technology being unable to do the requirement? so things get delayed.....
i can think of MANY government recomendations and regs that got passed over my time on this planet. many that got delayed due to the abilities of industry etc for many reasons not able to meet the regs.
EV vehicles have a place. At the moment, not able to meet specs for us all. Not a problem in my book today. When 2034 rolls around, hopefully tech, mines have opened to meet lithium and other material needs have come online, we might meet regs. If not, then relook at regs.
marty
The issue for me isn't the technology hindering me in any way. I like technology. It's the lack of free market and being forced to adopt despite challenges and forcing me to pay for it.
That's socialism not free market. If you want to spend your own billions developing a product that could produce benefit and profit for you, knock yourself out. But don't cherry pick science in your sales pitch to force me to be an investor making me poorer while you get rich. EV's haven't made it on their own in over a hundred years. Just goes to show if you throw enough money at anything you can make it work. As long as it's not your money. And "work" is pretty loose, especially in the utopian benefit pamphlets.
.
Is it free market or socialism
When Gov pays bilions $ to rescue failing banks or factories?
Heres Somethin interesting our msm doesnt show wonder why
https://youtu.be/mmpWb6exNpQ
* This post was
edited 03/23/23 07:37pm by free radical *
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blt2ski
Kirkland, Wa
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way2roll,
While i stated a hopefull goal, i did not state some things that worry me. ie many of the things you mention. Which hopefully as part of permitting process, some of the things you mention will be ways to control run off, slides of left over muck etc.
i have a (multiple/ superfund site in my backyard per say. dept of ecology etc, know their is no way to clean these places up. its more of a how to contain these sites. The one im thinking of, i drive in and on it weekly at a minimum.
other projects like the oil line from canada to gulf states. i have no issues saying im ok with it, but the part some want to run across an aquifer, thru known sacred lands etc. Boo Hoo that the longer route costs more. At the end if the day, as noted my many, oil gets tax write offs for this, so we the people pay for it.
Hopefully, their will be better options, better lives ahead. If not, hopefully some if us can say we tried.
marty
92 Navistar dump truck, 7.3L 7 sp, 4.33 gears with a Detroit no spin
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JRscooby
Indepmo
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free radical wrote:
Is it free market or socialism
When Gov pays bilions $ to rescue failing banks or factories?
Heres Somethin interesting our msm doesnt show wonder why
https://youtu.be/mmpWb6exNpQ
Free market is often used in place of Capitalism.
You say it is either/or free market/socialism, then a link likely approved/financed by Communist China. Are you suggesting you don't see a difference communism/socialism?
Talking to people more educated than I am, reading books they recommend I understand communism, when corrupted, (always is) the ownership of, and profits from production always goes to few people.
But, OTOH capitalism, working as designed, and not constrained by strong unions or strong government the ownership of, and profits from production always goes to few people.
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way2roll
Wilmington NC
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blt2ski wrote:way2roll,
While i stated a hopefull goal, i did not state some things that worry me. ie many of the things you mention. Which hopefully as part of permitting process, some of the things you mention will be ways to control run off, slides of left over muck etc.
i have a (multiple/ superfund site in my backyard per say. dept of ecology etc, know their is no way to clean these places up. its more of a how to contain these sites. The one im thinking of, i drive in and on it weekly at a minimum.
other projects like the oil line from canada to gulf states. i have no issues saying im ok with it, but the part some want to run across an aquifer, thru known sacred lands etc. Boo Hoo that the longer route costs more. At the end if the day, as noted my many, oil gets tax write offs for this, so we the people pay for it.
Hopefully, their will be better options, better lives ahead. If not, hopefully some if us can say we tried.
marty
You're not wrong and I appreciate the positive spin. I like technology when it makes a difference. But to me, EV's aren't better, they're just different. I don't see where we've solved a single problem. We've just created new ones and kicked the can down the road. I feel with the technology we have available we can do better. Maybe it will come. We'll see.
2023 FR Sunseeker 2400B MBS
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Reisender
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way2roll wrote:blt2ski wrote:way2roll,
While i stated a hopefull goal, i did not state some things that worry me. ie many of the things you mention. Which hopefully as part of permitting process, some of the things you mention will be ways to control run off, slides of left over muck etc.
i have a (multiple/ superfund site in my backyard per say. dept of ecology etc, know their is no way to clean these places up. its more of a how to contain these sites. The one im thinking of, i drive in and on it weekly at a minimum.
other projects like the oil line from canada to gulf states. i have no issues saying im ok with it, but the part some want to run across an aquifer, thru known sacred lands etc. Boo Hoo that the longer route costs more. At the end if the day, as noted my many, oil gets tax write offs for this, so we the people pay for it.
Hopefully, their will be better options, better lives ahead. If not, hopefully some if us can say we tried.
marty
You're not wrong and I appreciate the positive spin. I like technology when it makes a difference. But to me, EV's aren't better, they're just different. I don't see where we've solved a single problem. We've just created new ones and kicked the can down the road. I feel with the technology we have available we can do better. Maybe it will come. We'll see.
I don’t think EV sales are taking off like they are because they are solving a problem or because they are some kind of ecological panacea. People are buying EV’s because they like them. The biggest reasons people buy EV’s are still
Better performance on every metric.
Convenience of fueling at home.
Great tech (a big crowd pleaser)
Low maintenance.
Cheap fuel.
Super quiet.
For those of us who get winter EV’s are super convenient compared to gassers or diesels. Never worry about starting in the cold and for those of us who park outside a lot it’s toasty warm and defrosted with no window scraping within 5 minutes. Much faster than a gasser or diesel. Probably half our neighbours went EV shopping after they watched us go thru the first winter with ours 7 years ago. It’s nice. And gas pumps in winter are never any fun. One of our older neighbours switched last year before winter. She loves not having to deal with a gas pump in winter anymore.
But to each their own. Everybody has different preferences.
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Grit dog
Black Diamond, WA
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LMHS wrote:Latner wrote:
X2. If you happen to wander off course and end up in kali, be sure to hide your bag of Skittles.
I don't eat skittles.
Really surprised the mods didn’t delete this. Although they may not be hip enough to understand your connotation.
But remember, just like the world doesn’t need super off the chart right wing liberals, it also does not need conservative bigots….
2016 Ram 2500, MotorOps.ca EFIlive tuned, 5” turbo back, 6" lift on 37s
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FishOnOne
The Great State of Texas
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Reisender wrote:way2roll wrote:blt2ski wrote:way2roll,
While i stated a hopefull goal, i did not state some things that worry me. ie many of the things you mention. Which hopefully as part of permitting process, some of the things you mention will be ways to control run off, slides of left over muck etc.
i have a (multiple/ superfund site in my backyard per say. dept of ecology etc, know their is no way to clean these places up. its more of a how to contain these sites. The one im thinking of, i drive in and on it weekly at a minimum.
other projects like the oil line from canada to gulf states. i have no issues saying im ok with it, but the part some want to run across an aquifer, thru known sacred lands etc. Boo Hoo that the longer route costs more. At the end if the day, as noted my many, oil gets tax write offs for this, so we the people pay for it.
Hopefully, their will be better options, better lives ahead. If not, hopefully some if us can say we tried.
marty
You're not wrong and I appreciate the positive spin. I like technology when it makes a difference. But to me, EV's aren't better, they're just different. I don't see where we've solved a single problem. We've just created new ones and kicked the can down the road. I feel with the technology we have available we can do better. Maybe it will come. We'll see.
I don’t think EV sales are taking off like they are because they are solving a problem or because they are some kind of ecological panacea. People are buying EV’s because they like them. The biggest reasons people buy EV’s are still
Better performance on every metric.
Convenience of fueling at home.
Great tech (a big crowd pleaser)
Low maintenance.
Cheap fuel.
Super quiet.
For those of us who get winter EV’s are super convenient compared to gassers or diesels. Never worry about starting in the cold and for those of us who park outside a lot it’s toasty warm and defrosted with no window scraping within 5 minutes. Much faster than a gasser or diesel. Probably half our neighbours went EV shopping after they watched us go thru the first winter with ours 7 years ago. It’s nice. And gas pumps in winter are never any fun. One of our older neighbours switched last year before winter. She loves not having to deal with a gas pump in winter anymore.
But to each their own. Everybody has different preferences.
Your missed these metrics:
Highway distance between charges
Time to recharge
Distance between charges while towing
'12 Ford Super Duty FX4 ELD CC 6.7 PSD 400HP 800ft/lbs "270k Miles"
'16 Sprinter 319MKS "Wide Body"
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Reisender
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FishOnOne wrote:Reisender wrote:way2roll wrote:blt2ski wrote:way2roll,
While i stated a hopefull goal, i did not state some things that worry me. ie many of the things you mention. Which hopefully as part of permitting process, some of the things you mention will be ways to control run off, slides of left over muck etc.
i have a (multiple/ superfund site in my backyard per say. dept of ecology etc, know their is no way to clean these places up. its more of a how to contain these sites. The one im thinking of, i drive in and on it weekly at a minimum.
other projects like the oil line from canada to gulf states. i have no issues saying im ok with it, but the part some want to run across an aquifer, thru known sacred lands etc. Boo Hoo that the longer route costs more. At the end if the day, as noted my many, oil gets tax write offs for this, so we the people pay for it.
Hopefully, their will be better options, better lives ahead. If not, hopefully some if us can say we tried.
marty
You're not wrong and I appreciate the positive spin. I like technology when it makes a difference. But to me, EV's aren't better, they're just different. I don't see where we've solved a single problem. We've just created new ones and kicked the can down the road. I feel with the technology we have available we can do better. Maybe it will come. We'll see.
I don’t think EV sales are taking off like they are because they are solving a problem or because they are some kind of ecological panacea. People are buying EV’s because they like them. The biggest reasons people buy EV’s are still
Better performance on every metric.
Convenience of fueling at home.
Great tech (a big crowd pleaser)
Low maintenance.
Cheap fuel.
Super quiet.
For those of us who get winter EV’s are super convenient compared to gassers or diesels. Never worry about starting in the cold and for those of us who park outside a lot it’s toasty warm and defrosted with no window scraping within 5 minutes. Much faster than a gasser or diesel. Probably half our neighbours went EV shopping after they watched us go thru the first winter with ours 7 years ago. It’s nice. And gas pumps in winter are never any fun. One of our older neighbours switched last year before winter. She loves not having to deal with a gas pump in winter anymore.
But to each their own. Everybody has different preferences.
Your missed these metrics:
Highway distance between charges
Time to recharge
Distance between charges while towing
Yah for sure. It’s just a matter of wether somebody thinks those are important for their driving.
Many are fine with stopping every 3 or 4 hours and taking a 20 minute break. Almost always the car is finished charging before they are finished doing what they doing. Eating, bathroom etc. But sure, if you are the type that travels 6 hours and then takes a 15 minute fuel al food break the gasser is a better way to go. But there are a lot less of those types on the road. Definitely not a healthy way to travel.
Towing is a different animal. Those of us who are retired might be okay with a charge step every 2 or 3 hours. Others not. And of course right now one has to select a small trailer to achieve a reasonable towing experience. I’m sure that will change in time as new tech comes out. Short of towing range with existing EV’s the actual towing experience is superior with an electric. It’s a different world.
But to each his own. Bottom line is people love EV’s and sales continue to grow fast all over the world for no other reason than people love them. The number one and two vehicle in Europe are EV’s. Same in California. And many parts of Asia. Times are changing.
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Huntindog
Phoenix AZ
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Joined: 04/08/2002
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FishOnOne wrote:Reisender wrote:way2roll wrote:blt2ski wrote:way2roll,
While i stated a hopefull goal, i did not state some things that worry me. ie many of the things you mention. Which hopefully as part of permitting process, some of the things you mention will be ways to control run off, slides of left over muck etc.
i have a (multiple/ superfund site in my backyard per say. dept of ecology etc, know their is no way to clean these places up. its more of a how to contain these sites. The one im thinking of, i drive in and on it weekly at a minimum.
other projects like the oil line from canada to gulf states. i have no issues saying im ok with it, but the part some want to run across an aquifer, thru known sacred lands etc. Boo Hoo that the longer route costs more. At the end if the day, as noted my many, oil gets tax write offs for this, so we the people pay for it.
Hopefully, their will be better options, better lives ahead. If not, hopefully some if us can say we tried.
marty
You're not wrong and I appreciate the positive spin. I like technology when it makes a difference. But to me, EV's aren't better, they're just different. I don't see where we've solved a single problem. We've just created new ones and kicked the can down the road. I feel with the technology we have available we can do better. Maybe it will come. We'll see.
I don’t think EV sales are taking off like they are because they are solving a problem or because they are some kind of ecological panacea. People are buying EV’s because they like them. The biggest reasons people buy EV’s are still
Better performance on every metric.
Convenience of fueling at home.
Great tech (a big crowd pleaser)
Low maintenance.
Cheap fuel.
Super quiet.
For those of us who get winter EV’s are super convenient compared to gassers or diesels. Never worry about starting in the cold and for those of us who park outside a lot it’s toasty warm and defrosted with no window scraping within 5 minutes. Much faster than a gasser or diesel. Probably half our neighbours went EV shopping after they watched us go thru the first winter with ours 7 years ago. It’s nice. And gas pumps in winter are never any fun. One of our older neighbours switched last year before winter. She loves not having to deal with a gas pump in winter anymore.
But to each their own. Everybody has different preferences.
Your missed these metrics:
Highway distance between charges
Time to recharge
Distance between charges while towing a lot of people forget where they are.
this is a TOW VEHICLE forum.
Huntindog
100% boondocking
2021 Grand Design Momentum 398M
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wing_zealot
East of the Mississippi
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Reisender wrote:FishOnOne wrote:Reisender wrote:way2roll wrote:blt2ski wrote:way2roll,
While i stated a hopefull goal, i did not state some things that worry me. ie many of the things you mention. Which hopefully as part of permitting process, some of the things you mention will be ways to control run off, slides of left over muck etc.
i have a (multiple/ superfund site in my backyard per say. dept of ecology etc, know their is no way to clean these places up. its more of a how to contain these sites. The one im thinking of, i drive in and on it weekly at a minimum.
other projects like the oil line from canada to gulf states. i have no issues saying im ok with it, but the part some want to run across an aquifer, thru known sacred lands etc. Boo Hoo that the longer route costs more. At the end if the day, as noted my many, oil gets tax write offs for this, so we the people pay for it.
Hopefully, their will be better options, better lives ahead. If not, hopefully some if us can say we tried.
marty
You're not wrong and I appreciate the positive spin. I like technology when it makes a difference. But to me, EV's aren't better, they're just different. I don't see where we've solved a single problem. We've just created new ones and kicked the can down the road. I feel with the technology we have available we can do better. Maybe it will come. We'll see.
I don’t think EV sales are taking off like they are because they are solving a problem or because they are some kind of ecological panacea. People are buying EV’s because they like them. The biggest reasons people buy EV’s are still
Better performance on every metric.
Convenience of fueling at home.
Great tech (a big crowd pleaser)
Low maintenance.
Cheap fuel.
Super quiet.
For those of us who get winter EV’s are super convenient compared to gassers or diesels. Never worry about starting in the cold and for those of us who park outside a lot it’s toasty warm and defrosted with no window scraping within 5 minutes. Much faster than a gasser or diesel. Probably half our neighbours went EV shopping after they watched us go thru the first winter with ours 7 years ago. It’s nice. And gas pumps in winter are never any fun. One of our older neighbours switched last year before winter. She loves not having to deal with a gas pump in winter anymore.
But to each their own. Everybody has different preferences.
Your missed these metrics:
Highway distance between charges
Time to recharge
Distance between charges while towing
Yah for sure. It’s just a matter of wether somebody thinks those are important for their driving.
Many are fine with stopping every 3 or 4 hours and taking a 20 minute break. Almost always the car is finished charging before they are finished doing what they doing. Eating, bathroom etc. But sure, if you are the type that travels 6 hours and then takes a 15 minute fuel al food break the gasser is a better way to go. But there are a lot less of those types on the road. Definitely not a healthy way to travel.
Towing is a different animal. Those of us who are retired might be okay with a charge step every 2 or 3 hours. Others not. And of course right now one has to select a small trailer to achieve a reasonable towing experience. I’m sure that will change in time as new tech comes out. Short of towing range with existing EV’s the actual towing experience is superior with an electric. It’s a different world.
But to each his own. Bottom line is people love EV’s and sales continue to grow fast all over the world for no other reason than people love them. The number one and two vehicle in Europe are EV’s. Same in California. And many parts of Asia. Times are changing. "Cheap Fuel"?
#1 Depends on where you live. About 0.1% of the members of this forum live in an area serviced by BC Hydro - where apparently electricity is cheap which is a number some people like to use in their calculation for everyone else also. The other 99.9% of us don't. And a greater number live in Cal., where fuel of any type can be called anything but cheap.
#2 Offset by vehicle purchase price
#3 Further offset by cost of insurance
#4 And further offset by DMV surcharges for Road Tax (growing number of states)
Let's keep talking about metrics, this is fun, albeit, one sided.
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