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 > Tesla Semi truck unveil & test ride set for Oct 26th !

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Reisender

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Posted: 12/27/19 11:44am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

wilber1 wrote:

Reisender wrote:

wilber1 wrote:



How about the fact the economy would grind to a halt and cities would starve without them.
Even your Tesla leaves the factory on the back of a carrier hauled by a diesel powered truck.


Without what?

I have no problem with gas or diesel vehicles. They are part of the evolution. I drive a diesel pusher. I just don’t think fuel should be subsidized. And as long as fuel is subsidized there should be huge subsidies for EV’s. The best thing would be to work towards no subsidies for either.

I don’t drive a Tesla.


Without fossil fuels. Almost everything you use or buy comes on a truck powered by them. Cities don't feed themselves from rooftop gardens.


No problem with fossil fuels as we need them in the transition. But why not charge the real cost for the fuel. Why the free ride. Crank up the tax or get rid of the subsidy. Incentivize the transition, don’t prolong it.

Petroleum is to valuable to burn.

wilber1

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Posted: 12/27/19 12:16pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Reisender wrote:

wilber1 wrote:

Reisender wrote:

wilber1 wrote:



How about the fact the economy would grind to a halt and cities would starve without them.
Even your Tesla leaves the factory on the back of a carrier hauled by a diesel powered truck.


Without what?

I have no problem with gas or diesel vehicles. They are part of the evolution. I drive a diesel pusher. I just don’t think fuel should be subsidized. And as long as fuel is subsidized there should be huge subsidies for EV’s. The best thing would be to work towards no subsidies for either.

I don’t drive a Tesla.


Without fossil fuels. Almost everything you use or buy comes on a truck powered by them. Cities don't feed themselves from rooftop gardens.


No problem with fossil fuels as we need them in the transition. But why not charge the real cost for the fuel. Why the free ride. Crank up the tax or get rid of the subsidy. Incentivize the transition, don’t prolong it.


Petroleum is to valuable to burn.


Transition to what? Taxes don't magically produce technologies that can match the energy density and portability of fossil fuels.

We are in a pickle because there isn't anything on the horizon that is. We can make dents in fossil fuel use but there is no credible replacement for them in many applications. Aviation presents big problems, not only do you need fuels that have a high energy density but they also have to supply comparatively light weight engines that produce immense power, and the fuel can't turn to margarine at -35C.


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time2roll

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Posted: 12/27/19 12:31pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Key word there is "transition". Change over time is the idea. Fossil fuel subsidies could be reduced over a 20 year period. The idea is to start today.

The second point is why complain about EVs getting similar subsidy as fossil fuels have long long enjoyed?

Semi can't get here fast enough.


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Huntindog

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Posted: 12/27/19 12:35pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Umm, I hear this a lot from some people here. But not once has anyone stated specifically what subsidies the fossil fuel industry gets.

I am not talking about a tax break for investing in equipment.... All buisineses get those. I am talking about the kind of subsidies the EV industry gets... And Solar too. They have the govt. directly paying people to buy their products...

I have never recieved a dime directly from the govt. for driving a ICE auto... I do pay a lot though.



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Reisender

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Posted: 12/27/19 12:40pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Wilbur. I respect your opinion and understand what you are saying. But we will continue to disagree on this. I don’t see an all or nothing case. Already pretty much all commuter travelling can be done by electtic vehicles. 10 years ago it couldn’t. Short haul trucking and city bussing by electric are already becoming a reality. Electric mining equipment, short haul ferries etc etc. There is no off and on switch. It is a transition and it is happening. It will take 30 years. But, in my opinion subsidizing the fuel in the meantime is not helping things....unless they massively increase subsidies to the EV side.

Jmho.

I have to get back to my class/course.

Enjoyed the polite banter.

Cheers. Safe holiday travels.

8.1 Van

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Posted: 12/27/19 12:56pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

What risks does Tesla face in the coming years?


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RobertRyan

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Posted: 12/27/19 01:45pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

thomasmnile wrote:

'Use' taxes(based on mileage driven) are being studied in some states as a means of insuring all who use the roads pay for them. Others are considering imposing higher registration fees on BEV's. Who knows the outcome, only certainty is the gubbimint will get their 'tribute'.

What they have been doing in Australia for years. You get a road tax to pay for new roads, plus State and federal grants to build them

wilber1

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Posted: 12/27/19 04:39pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Huntindog wrote:

Umm, I hear this a lot from some people here. But not once has anyone stated specifically what subsidies the fossil fuel industry gets.

I am not talking about a tax break for investing in equipment.... All buisineses get those. I am talking about the kind of subsidies the EV industry gets... And Solar too. They have the govt. directly paying people to buy their products...

I have never recieved a dime directly from the govt. for driving a ICE auto... I do pay a lot though.


Subsidies create artificial markets. This is in evidenced where EV sales have tanked when rebates are stopped. In Ontario, sales dropped from 3% of the market to less than 1% when the provincial rebate was discontinued.

NJRVer

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Posted: 12/27/19 08:16pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Huntindog wrote:

Umm, I hear this a lot from some people here. But not once has anyone stated specifically what subsidies the fossil fuel industry gets.

I am not talking about a tax break for investing in equipment.... All buisineses get those. I am talking about the kind of subsidies the EV industry gets... And Solar too. They have the govt. directly paying people to buy their products...

I have never recieved a dime directly from the govt. for driving a ICE auto... I do pay a lot though.


https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesellsmoor/2019/06/15/united-states-spend-ten-times-more-on-fossil-fuel-subsidies-than-education/#ecf687144735

According to Forbes, fossil fuel gets more than renewables.

wilber1

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Posted: 12/27/19 08:40pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

NJRVer wrote:

Huntindog wrote:

Umm, I hear this a lot from some people here. But not once has anyone stated specifically what subsidies the fossil fuel industry gets.

I am not talking about a tax break for investing in equipment.... All buisineses get those. I am talking about the kind of subsidies the EV industry gets... And Solar too. They have the govt. directly paying people to buy their products...

I have never recieved a dime directly from the govt. for driving a ICE auto... I do pay a lot though.


https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesellsmoor/2019/06/15/united-states-spend-ten-times-more-on-fossil-fuel-subsidies-than-education/#ecf687144735

According to Forbes, fossil fuel gets more than renewables.


The IMF has just become another bunch of activists. They include every negative effect of fossil fuels as a subsidy while ignoring the consequences of not using them. There are a lot of things we use in society that have negative effects but we don't consider them subsidies.

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